44 mag and H110

ipscgraz

ipscgraz

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So I have been reloading 44 mag for quite some time and had settled on 8.2 of Win 231 as a comfortable load in a S&W 629 at nicely over 1000 FPS. A couple of years ago I bought a Ruger 77/44 rifle and developed some pretty stiff loads using Winchester 296 (22.0 grains) and eventually H 110 (22.5 grains) all with 240 grain cast, then plated bullets.

I definitely had more power in the rifle loads, but no pressure signs and comfortable to shoot. I went and bought 500 nickle plated brass to distinguish rifle from pistol loads. Eventually I ran out of Win 231 which I was using in the revolver, and looked up a load on line; Hodgon website called for a starting load of 23 grains H110. I thought this sounded a little stiff so I loaded 40 rounds at 18 grains of H110 and found them really uncomfortable...and I like recoil and am not a small guy with small hands or anything close! After 4 or 5 rounds I decided that I was gonna use the rest of the 18.0 grain loads in the rifle.

So...one of two things happened
1/ I am used to a relatively low power load at 8.2 W231 and was surprised by a "normal" hot load and am over reacting, or
2/ I was smart enough to recognize a load that was too hot somehow.

So is anybody using H 110 in a 44 mag handgun load? how hot are you loading and have you had any pressure signs?
 
Looked up 240g cast in Lyman #4 Lyman #429667
H110 Start 22.5 at 1204fps---->max 23.5 1266fpsWith a mag Primer

I would call this Snappy if only used to 1000 fps

Be carefull with H110 and W296 As this powder you do not reduce

or are you confusing data H110 and N110 ?

Look up data for 2400 or unique for the 44 mag
 
I loaded and shot today some 200gr plated loaded with both 27gr and 27.7gr of h110 with no problems. I've also loaded and shot some 245gr plated loaded with 23.5gr and 24gr h110 with no issues.
 
I have used Win 296 in 44s for years (supposedly identical to H110) do not reduce loads below book mins.......... I have loaded significantly higher than book recommended but loads were safe in my Ruger Blackhawks. The normal everyday 44 load is 24 gns H110/Win 296 behind a 240 gn jacketed bullet with a large pistol magnum primer. This load is very accurate and is used, or was used, by almost every IHMSA 44 shooter that I ever met. You are in a much more dangerous place at 18 gns than you are at 24 gns..........
 
While I don't have a 44mag, I do have a 357 and a 500mag. For the 357mag h110/w296 is just about all I use. 15gr with a 158gr cast or plated and 22lr with a 110gr jacketed. For the 500mag I use 42gr (i belive) for a 350gr bullet and 22gr(im not at home to check the exact number) for a 700fr cast bullet.

If your wanting nice light loads for the 44 get some hodgdon trailboss. It makes my 500 seem like a 38 spl.
 
I have owned and shot five revolvers, 2 S&W and three Ruger Super Blackhawk, plus 2 Marlin rifles, in 44 magnum.
Everyone of those guns has shot my maximum loads, 24 or 25 grains of H110/W296, or the load that Elmer Keith used for designing the 44 mag, 22 grains of 2400.
Everyone of the revolvers was used for shooting silhouette, at targets from 50 to 200 metres.
There is quite a difference in velocity from one revolver to the next, due to how much gap exists between cylinder and forcing cone.
My hottest load used was the old standby, 22 grains of 2400. In one Ruger I checked it in, it gave 1415 fps, with the standard 240, or so, grain Keith designed bullet.
The same Super Blackhawk, with 24.5 grains of W296/H110 gave 1358 with flat base bullets and 1385 with gas check bullets.
The loads with 2400 powder had less difference between high and low than did the loads with H110.
The loads of 22 grains of 2400 had considerable recoil for silhouette competition, but I found that 20 grains gave as good of accuracy with velocity of 1312, which meant I only had to give the Ruger one more click of elevation at 200 metres. The extreme spread of five was only 41, or less than half of the best loads of H110 or W296 powder.
2400 powder still gave excellent accuracy down to 17.5 grains, which registered 1120 fps.
Best accuracy for light loads was with 8.2 grains of W231, which gave 1018 fps and an es of only 18!
H110 or W296 gave inconsistent loads when reduced very much. The extreme spread even at full load was 80 to 100, and at 20 grains the extreme spread was around 200 fps.
 
H4831 said:
I have owned and shot five revolvers, 2 S&W and three Ruger Super Blackhawk, plus 2 Marlin rifles, in 44 magnum.
Everyone of those guns has shot my maximum loads, 24 or 25 grains of H110/W296, or the load that Elmer Keith used for designing the 44 mag, 22 grains of 2400.
Everyone of the revolvers was used for shooting silhouette, at targets from 50 to 200 metres.
There is quite a difference in velocity from one revolver to the next, due to how much gap exists between cylinder and forcing cone.
My hottest load used was the old standby, 22 grains of 2400. In one Ruger I checked it in, it gave 1415 fps, with the standard 240, or so, grain Keith designed bullet.
The same Super Blackhawk, with 24.5 grains of W296/H110 gave 1358 with flat base bullets and 1385 with gas check bullets.
The loads with 2400 powder had less difference between high and low than did the loads with H110.
The loads of 22 grains of 2400 had considerable recoil for silhouette competition, but I found that 20 grains gave as good of accuracy with velocity of 1312, which meant I only had to give the Ruger one more click of elevation at 200 metres. The extreme spread of five was only 41, or less than half of the best loads of H110 or W296 powder.
2400 powder still gave excellent accuracy down to 17.5 grains, which registered 1120 fps.
Best accuracy for light loads was with 8.2 grains of W231, which gave 1018 fps and an es of only 18!
H110 or W296 gave inconsistent loads when reduced very much. The extreme spread even at full load was 80 to 100, and at 20 grains the extreme spread was around 200 fps.
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Thank you. Lots of useful info here.
 
I've shot a couple thousand rounds of 44 mag through two of my revolvers, all loaded with 25gr of H110 with a 240gr hard cast boolit, no pressure signs and easy extraction. It's a nice stout load but nothing to crazy.
 
I shoot 22gr w296/h110 with my wheel weight cast 265gr gas check ranch dog bullets. They measure 1700fps on the nose from my marlin 1894 and I can put 3 of them in 1. 5" at 100 yards. That's my hunting load. I have shot them in my sbh but never chronographed them in the sbh. My plinking loads are 12gr w571 with a Keith.
 
ipscgraz said:
So is anybody using H 110 in a 44 mag handgun load? how hot are you loading and have you had any pressure signs?
Click to expand...

I shoot 8.0gr of WW231 under a 245gr Keith SWC as the light load in my Redhawk. My heavy load is 24.0gr of H110 under the same bullet in the same revolver. There is a world of difference between the two loads in terms of muzzle flash/blast and recoil, you just weren't used to a full house magnum load and it felt nasty to you.


Mark
 
I have 2 revolvers the dan Wesson and colt anaconda. shoot 23g h110 240g plated bullets the dan Wesson is mild recoil the anaconda on the other hand feels like its going to rip you and itself apart
 
This is off the Castboolits website. I have always heard that you NEVER GO BELOW THE MINIMUM LOAD WITH H-110. Here is a good explanation why...
The OP's question isn't about red dot or green dot or other people's pet loads. His question was about going below minimum recommended charge weights with H110.

The answer is a resounding NO. I just went through the same thing looking for a medium velocity load for deer, and my research and the opinions of several long time reloaders and forum members here showed that charges below minimum with H110 could be dangerous and unpredictable. I had a 260gr LSWCHP-GC boolit, the same boolit that Buffalo Bore loads in their "Deer Grenade" ammo, and I found that charges below 19gr were not recommended because at this level, the case capacity overcomes the 75% load density ratio and things get unsafe below that amount with slow burning powder.

The problem centers on the large case capacity of the .45 Colt. Say the inside of the case is.440" in diameter, and you have a powder charge exposed to the flash of the primer that is up against the flash hole, only a certain area of powder is started burning at one given time, which allows the flame front to spread through the charge in an even manner. This would be considered normal ignition. Now, take a lesser charge weight of powder, and it is laying along the bottom of the case, below the flash hole, there is more than double the amount of powder granules now exposed to the primer flash, and a LOT more powder begins to burn at the same time. You could have erratic ignition, an extreme pressure spike, and an unsafe and unpredictable situation within the case. This is the chief danger in downloading H110, and the reason that most say do NOT download this powder below minimum charge weight.

I found that 2400 and also LilGun were safe and delivered the velocity I needed without running the inherent risk of venturing outside published load data for a given load.

Also, without steering this thread, there is a void in load data for the mid level of .45 Colt that needs to be mentioned. Some have divided the power levels of this cartridge by the pressure ceilings of the guns chambered for it, which is kind of a good thing. So far the load manuals haven't really taken it to task to develop or document this too much, and only a few of the gun writers have done it.

It goes something like this..

Tier 1, original Colt SAA, S&W, SAA clones, pressure ceiling of 14,000psi which is SAAMI spec for the caliber.

Tier 2, this is the gray area, but guns rated for pressures such as .45 ACP +P like the Ruger New Vaquero, New Model Flattop, 23,000psi. There is not now and not likely to be a SAAMI spec in this pressure range, because there are too many old guns that are NOT SAFE with this ammo and too much chance of someone blowing up a gun that can only handle the original SAAMI spec of 14,000psi.

Tier 3, this is the upward end of .45 Colt, Ruger original Vaquero, Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, Redhawk, T/C, Freedom Arms, etc, pressure ceiling of 30,000psi
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To download H110, you venture into that Tier 2 pressure range where there is not very much load data at all, regardless of boolit weight and powder, and Tier 2 pressure levels are plenty doable, just with powder other than H110. I have good results with LilGun and 2400, they are accurate and safe and great to shoot. These are plenty stout for hunting deer and bear, but definitely NOT SAFE for use in guns only rated for Tier 1 pressure. Herco works well for this, Unique falls just above it's max recommended charge for Tier 2 and is not a good choice. Trail Boss may work well, Titegroup, there are other powders and I am sure you will get equally as many recommendations for powder. I just tried to keep my reply aimed at the OP's original question instead of turning the thread into the "What powder for .45 Colt" for the umpteenth time..
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