M 38 or why nobody likes counter bored ?

lavoltiges

lavoltiges

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why nobody likes counter bored?
apart from the fact that it decreases the value of collection
I prefer a counter bored if the rifle shoots better
in addition to the M38 they were made ​​arsenal, for practical reasons maintenance

For my part, I prefer a counter bored M38 with M38 stock
rather than a not couterbored M38 with a stock m44
even in pure collection value, I think it has more interest
 
Kevin M. said:
Forgive my ignorance... what does counter bored actually mean relating to firearms?
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A repair to the crown of the barrel. Affects the value if you're going for an "as-issued from the factory" type of rifle, but makes it quite accurate compared to a crown that's been attacked with a cleaning rod or shot out.
 
I myself owns a M38 counter bored and she shoots really great
much better than a lot of M38 or M44 not counter bored that I could see

this is why I asked the question
often the crown is damaged and sometimes poorly remade (in the garage)

the state, the counter bored do not mind as long as the rifle shoots well
but in Canada, It sounds like a shameful disease

for explanation of the counter bored
this mean that the rifling does not go to the end the barrel

an Anglophone will surely answer you in more detail,
because as you can notice, my English is not very good
 
Andurp said:
A repair to the crown of the barrel. Affects the value if you're going for an "as-issued from the factory" type of rifle, but makes it quite accurate compared to a crown that's been attacked with a cleaning rod or shot out.
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I always wonder why the Russians chose steel for their cleaning rods, and didn't just go with something like a pull through like the Enfield family of rifles did? Perhaps tradition or something else I'm not thinking of?

Seen many a Russian Milsurp with barrel wear attributed to over zealous cleaning with the original steel cleaning rods.
 
haretrigger said:
I always wonder why the Russians chose steel for their cleaning rods, and didn't just go with something like a pull through like the Enfield family of rifles did? Perhaps tradition or something else I'm not thinking of?

Seen many a Russian Milsurp with barrel wear attributed to over zealous cleaning with the original steel cleaning rods.
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My guess is it's probably for the same reason 95% of all Russian issued machine guns don't have the ability to change the barrel. Cheaper to put another one in there at the armoury after the rifling is pooched, or just take advantage of your mass-production capabilities and make another rifle than it is to spend the time teaching the conscripts the value of rifling. Especially back in WW2 when they were conscripting half of the country and then sending them into the meat-grinder a month or so later. Also, a rifle with a destroyed crown may group an awful 7 inches or something at 100 yards, but 7 inches is still enough to hit a man at that range.

They just cared less about individual marksmanship, training, and rifle maintenance than the western armies did. Unfortunate for the collector at times, a necessity for them at the time.
 
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haretrigger said:
I always wonder why the Russians chose steel for their cleaning rods, and didn't just go with something like a pull through like the Enfield family of rifles did? Perhaps tradition or something else I'm not thinking of?

Seen many a Russian Milsurp with barrel wear attributed to over zealous cleaning with the original steel cleaning rods.
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Why did the Germans still issue cleaning rods on their rifles till late into the war?

In my opinion and personal experience, you can scrub a bore much better with a rod than you can with a pull through. It just takes a little more TLC.

Besides. Picture yourself as a Russian soldier. You find your rifle is starting to shoot like sh!t. Why not go pick up another rifle from a fallen comrade?
 
I have 2 M38s one counterbored and one not .. The counterbored one shoots way better has a nice sharp crown about 1.5 inches down the barrel , the muzzle on the non counterbored rifle is worn and dull from improper cleaning rod usage .. Counterboring will save the accuracy of rifles with a very bad muzzle .. I have seen many full length Mosins that could greatly benefit from counterboring but recrowning is a much better less aggressive way most of the time with old rifles . But the counterboring was much faster and fixed a wider range of muzzle wear.
 
I have a "few" M44's and M38's, I handload for all. the most accurate of the entire bunch is the only one that IS counterbored!!!
I bought it off a CGN'er and he didn't disclose that, was my 1st rifle that was counter bored and I couldn't be happier with it.
 
The main problem with pull throughs is the wear to the crown of the bore.
A pull through will quickly erode the crown because it is not pulled dead center
to the bore, but usually to one side or the other.

A cleaning rod used from the breech end is a far better way to clean a bore.
That's why I have no use for Bore Snakes and the like.
 
I have a few Mosins that have been counterbored. I much prefer that they have are counterbored and shoot well then "as issue" and shoot poorly.
 
Perception in the eyes of the beholder, I suppose. To me a period stock is more desirable on a refurb than is the lack of counter boring. At least the gun has the right look. I walked away from an average 1927 Tula because the post war stock just didn't do it for me and I was happy to pick up an m24 Finn and didn't care a whit that it was counterbored.
 
SHELL SHUCKER said:
The main problem with pull throughs is the wear to the crown of the bore.
A pull through will quickly erode the crown because it is not pulled dead center
to the bore, but usually to one side or the other.

A cleaning rod used from the breech end is a far better way to clean a bore.
That's why I have no use for Bore Snakes and the like.
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I have heard that before about bore snakes and found it very hard to believe . try wearing down any hardened steel edge with a piece of cloth or nylon like say a knife edge, good luck you will be there for years .. even to dull that knife a bit would take many hours or days of cutting fabric .. No way in hell that boresnake string will hurt a steel edge like a crown under normal use , you would have to pull it through a million times ..
 
The rifles were issued with cleaning kits that included a muzzle protector.
And a one piece Mosin Nagant cleaning rod was considered a useful trophy for a victorious German sniper.
A better question would be why the Germans were issued chain pull through cleaning kits and the Brits a hemp cord.......Plus have you ever tried removing a stuck case/bullet/dirt or snow impacted muzzle with a pull through?
 
boss351cleveland said:
I have heard that before about bore snakes and found it very hard to believe . try wearing down any hardened steel edge with a piece of cloth or nylon like say a knife edge, good luck you will be there for years .. even to dull that knife a bit would take many hours or days of cutting fabric .. No way in hell that boresnake string will hurt a steel edge like a crown under normal use , you would have to pull it through a million times ..
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Throw a bore snake in your pocket and do a millitary obstickle cource ( crawl on your hands and knees through the dirt, run through a muddy trail, jump into a fox hole and roll around in the dirt, then pull that bore snake out and clean your gun with it, do that every day for a year a report back how your bore looks. The dirt from your pocket , and from the bore acts like abrastive compound. You might as well put valve grinding compound on your patches.
Bear in mind the germans used a CHAIN pull through.
Did you know that you can sharpen a knife off of dirty trousers if you strop the edge on your leg which IS hardened steel while a rifle barrel is NOT hardened?
 
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I read somewhere that the Russian counterbored as they were doing it were found that it was less muzzle flash and it stabilizes the bullet??
(the gas out in a coherent manner) compared to a worn or poorly machined rifling

when we see the arrival of a few years there
the barrel were new, but counterbored 3/4 inch
#
why a new counter bored barrel?
in anticipation? to have a flash hider of the poor?

or just becaufe the new barrel came from 91/30 shortcut and give them correct twist relative to the barrel length?
or give a consistency rifling after cutting

I'm not talking about collectible value (I understand that some do not want to hear about counter bored)
but I shoot with my gun surplus, so when they are accurate, this is a more

but technically why a counterbored barrel shoots better than not counter bored on a M38
 
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