Uh oh!! Is this load too much powder???

A

AndrewNS

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So whenever I get a new rifle I take it to a fellow here in NS that measures the chamber and sets me up with a great starting point for load development. I recently purchased a new 22-250 rifle and took it out to him to have it checked out.

He gave me a load with the following specs:

H4895 Powder - 33gr starting point and 34.2gr max load.
Lapua 69gr. OTM Scenar bullets


I was just looking in my loading manuel for a load for a 75gr bullet and noticed that it shows that the max load for a 70gr jacketed bullet with H4895 is 31.5gr, but it doesn't have anything for the 69gr OTM Scenar bullets.

Can you guys check the manuels that you have to see if there is anything listed for the bullet / powder combo in the 22-250??

Thanks!
 
Trinimon said:
Rule of thumb, never accept someone's load data without confirming it with reloading manuals etc. For Hodgdon powders, check out their website.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

You should get yourself some reload manuals.
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I have a good reading manual, and I do reference the online resources as well. But this man has about 50 reading manuals on his book shelf and has been doing this for many MANY years. If his load was wrong, this is probably the first time he was wrong...

The reason that I asked the question is because he had a manual that showed the Lapua bullet and I can't find any info that does.
 
With jacketed bullets you don't need to be concerned with brand, just weight. A grain or two variation in bullet weight is nothing to be concerned with. The only time bullet construction is important is cast/jacketed/monolithic have their own load data. Now according to Hodgdon, a 70 gr jacketed bullet w/ H4895 lists 28 gr starting and 31.5 gr max. That is only one source of course and I bet if you dug through a handful of books you would find min/max charges several grains off from Hodgdon's or anyone else's data. It all depends exactly what rifle/component combo those figures were acquired with. Rule of thumb here: start with the lowest starting load you find and work up accordingly. Your friend may have a book stating those exact numbers or he may have been mistaken, either way play it safe with the lower starting point.
 
I think that's what I'm going to do... I already had 30 rounds built when I noticed this, so I will pull them back apart and lower the powder quantity.

Thanks for the input guys.
 
CheeseBurger said:
I'm just curious as to why you don't do the work yourself? I don't mean to offend. I'm just confused as you are losing out on valuable experience.
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Why I don't do what work myself? The only think I get done is the chamber measured to find out where to seat the bullet in the cartridge for optimal distance from the rifleing and a starting load...
 
supernova said:
With jacketed bullets you don't need to be concerned with brand, just weight. A grain or two variation in bullet weight is nothing to be concerned with. The only time bullet construction is important is cast/jacketed/monolithic have their own load data. Now according to Hodgdon, a 70 gr jacketed bullet w/ H4895 lists 28 gr starting and 31.5 gr max. That is only one source of course and I bet if you dug through a handful of books you would find min/max charges several grains off from Hodgdon's or anyone else's data. It all depends exactly what rifle/component combo those figures were acquired with. Rule of thumb here: start with the lowest starting load you find and work up accordingly. Your friend may have a book stating those exact numbers or he may have been mistaken, either way play it safe with the lower starting point.
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I'm not commenting to promote hot starting loads, however, the different manuals are all over the map with their data. I've also noticed that the published loads tend to be bigger in older manuals. This makes me suspect that the publishers are unnecessarily reducing loads out of concern for liability issues.
 
AndrewNS said:
Why I don't do what work myself? The only think I get done is the chamber measured to find out where to seat the bullet in the cartridge for optimal distance from the rifleing and a starting load...
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Yes, the work you just mentioned? Why don't you do it yourself? It's a valuable part of the reloading process.
 
762shooter the lower data in today's manuals also is the result of better ways of pressure testing. I'm not say that liability isn't a factor too.
 
When I figure an COAL after mesuring my chamber and getting a load with a choosen powder from quickload. most of the time its over what manuals says ( one reason why I don't like quickloading for someone else )..... from the fact that your COAL is probably way longer than the sammi one used in the manuals. a longer COAL for the same bullet, cartridge , powder combo result in a bigger case volume so less pressure......

another thing you have to calculate is the H2o capacity of your fire formed case .

I ALWAYS start with the reloading manual minimum anyway but never surprise to go over the max without any pressure signs!!

I would suggest you try to mesure your chamber yourself next time, you can still bring your rifle to your buddy just to confirm.

Seb
 
mjn said:
I don't consider any load development " wasting components" not exactly sure what you mean.
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Well, I guess it depends completely on what you want to do with your time at the range. If you want to go through 10 - 15+ different loads getting all different results chasing that perfect load to finally find out what your rifle is capable of, then yes, l guess that not eliminating a few variables at the start is a good thing. And yes, I can also see why some would find the process to be fun and rewarding. However, I like spending my time at the range shooting that perfect load and putting sub MOA groups on target...

To each their own I guess.
 
spooksar said:
762shooter, "the lower data in today's manuals also is the result of better ways of pressure testing."

One of the great many myths told on CGN!
From even before WW1, they could accurately measure chamber pressure.
Besides, if loads worked normal through many millions of loadings, don't you think they would just continue with the load, it it wasn't for liability reasons?
An example is the 30-30. For many years the go to load for a 30-30 with 170 grain bullets was 33 grains of 3031 powder. This is still my favourite load and if I look hard enough I think I could find a loading chart with this listing.
What I do have is a Du Pont loading chart, marked "New Edition." In that loading chart it shows 32 grains of 3031 powder with a 170 grain bullet.
The Hodgdon loading on line shows for the 30-30 with 170 grain bullets, a maximum load of 29.2 grains of 3031 powder.
So, in 80 some years of shooting 32 and 33 grains of 30-31 powder, how many bullets do you think went down the barrels of lever action 30-30 rifles?
And most likely no signs of excess pressure at anytime!
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AndrewNS said:
^^ The book that he took the load data out of looked like it was falling apart it was so old... Maybe it actually showed the higher load?
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The way you describe the gentleman who gave you that information, I wouldn't hesitate a second, in firing the loads.
 
H4831 said:
spooksar said:
762shooter, "the lower data in today's manuals also is the result of better ways of pressure testing."

One of the great many myths told on CGN!
From even before WW1, they could accurately measure chamber pressure.
Besides, if loads worked normal through many millions of loadings, don't you think they would just continue with the load, it it wasn't for liability reasons?
An example is the 30-30. For many years the go to load for a 30-30 with 170 grain bullets was 33 grains of 3031 powder. This is still my favourite load and if I look hard enough I think I could find a loading chart with this listing.
What I do have is a Du Pont loading chart, marked "New Edition." In that loading chart it shows 32 grains of 3031 powder with a 170 grain bullet.
The Hodgdon loading on line shows for the 30-30 with 170 grain bullets, a maximum load of 29.2 grains of 3031 powder.
So, in 80 some years of shooting 32 and 33 grains of 30-31 powder, how many bullets do you think went down the barrels of lever action 30-30 rifles?
And most likely no signs of excess pressure at anytime!
Click to expand...

It's obvious! Chambers are getting tighter every year!
Click to expand...
 
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