Is the K31 a Bolt Action Rifle? DEBATE

Cdn303 said:
If you remove the piston both of those would be a straight-pull bolt action. But as they were intended to be operated, they are, like D-bomb says, automatics.

Anyhow, good debate RC.
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Or if you thread in plugs to the gas ports of a Winchester 1400 12 guage auto and change out the recoil spring
to a lighter one, then you have a straight pull, spring assisted return, bolt action gun. I call this one a slap bolt
for the obvious reason. Why, you ask? Because as an auto design the Winny 1400's were not durable enough for
the job.;)
watermark.php
 
I'm still humming and hawing over it.

The bolt sits in a sleeve which isn't like a bolt carrier but seems to suit the same function.
This sleeve is effected by an operating rod to engage the recoil lugs.
To me it seems more like a hybrid between a gas gun that needs to operator to cycle. much like the modified AR15 they run in the UK with the gas system disengaged.
It doesn't look like a bolt action, it doesn't operate the same as a bolt action.
I seem to be defying the laws of tradition...

 
infideleggwelder said:
its a mad minute. centre of mass. most rds on target. not looking for groupings. unless it`s a tie i guess.
but we`re looking for fastest effective operation, are we not?
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Then again there is also the battle tested factor. In real world battle situations the K31 while accurate and smooth didn't really see any action that I know of. The Lee Enfield has been thoroughly battle tested. While the K31 is accurate like a Swiss time piece, put that same timepiece in the mud and dirt and see how well it works or accurate it is. There were other accurate rifles that performed well at the range like the Ross because of it's tighter tolerances but jammed up when a little dirt was applied. So all things being equal in real battlefield conditions, I think that the tested Enfield would have the edge as the K31 would probably jam up. Just my opinion though...
 
D-BOMB said:
I would still say that it is, as you are using a manual method to reload it each time. Just because the caming action is accomplished (in the K31) by a helical cut in the bolt sleeve, you are still forced to operated the bolt to reload it. I usually refer to them as a "straight pull bolt action".
That being said as I commented on your video (great btw), In theory the K31 or earlier shmidt ruben rifles should be faster. However I find that even with the shortened bolt on the K31 series you still have to break your cheek weld or it will hit you in the face, when retracting the bolt. If you get in a comfortable firing position with a Lee Enfield you are good to go and it is easier to maintain sight picture, because you can keep your cheek weld while manipulating the bolt. Making it faster to operate while actually being able to hit something AND work the action with some urgency.

Good topic for debate! It seems the milsurp forum is back on track lately haha.
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All of this is true, and although the K31 IS faster to actually getting the first six shots off shots off-v-LE, remember that after six shots you have to reload and start over. In a five-shot race, these days, IMO the K31 is a winner. In a SEVEN-shot race, it's no contest.

And BTW, here in UK a dealer called Andy Allwood made a few ten-round K31 magazines - trust me, it sounded like an epileptic operating a Garand. The guy with the L-E never stood a hope in hell.

tac
 
Riflechair said:
To me it seems more like a hybrid between a gas gun that needs to operator to cycle. much like the modified AR15 they run in the UK with the gas system disengaged.
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Sir, I live in the yUK, and trust me, the gas system is positively NOT 'disengaged'. It IS totally absent in every respect. As with every single different kind of 'straight-pull' centre-fire of that genre. They have to be built without any part of the gas system machined out, to ensure complinace with the yUK's rather odd firearms laws. That goes a long way towards explaining the high price. Check out Mark Bradley Guns or South Yorkshire Guns or Southern Gun Company. We have everything here, from Dragunovs to M14 and SLRs - ALL straight-pull [they also have bolts. of course. See Youtube - tac's guns - for a flavour.

tac
 
The K31, Steyr and Ross are straight pull bolts. In other words, they have a cammed rotating bolt head very similar to a Rem 7600 pump gun and Rem 7400 Semi-auto.
Therefore, full length case sizing is required for proper operation. They do not lock tight as in Rem 700 bolts which have manual turn bolts.

Not to say the straight pulls are not accurate because K31's and Ross's have certainly proven they are. The only problem I can see with straight pulls are the bolt heads not engaged fully before firing and causing fatal injuries. Make damn sure that bolt is fully closed.
 
Dake21 said:
Well with a magazine capacity of 10 for the enfield vs 6 for the K31, it's pretty clear the enfield has an edge. However for accuracy I would personally bet on the K31. The swiss are known for their higher quality standard and the GP11 surplus ammo is still used as a match grade round.
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Well, mag capacity is larger in the Lee Enfield, but I fully believe this will not affect an experienced shooter at all, Swiss stripper clips are very fast loading. Swiss rifles are very well made, very high quality, GP11 ammo is made to match quality. If there was a show down. one would need to have a Lee Enfield that has not been used in war (or any conflict for that matter) like the Swiss rifles. Have the lee Enfield in good order to factory specs. Also make ammo designed to the same specs as say Dominion Arsenals Mk VII 174gr flat based ball ammo (not in production as most new ammo is spritzer bullets). Military rifles are made to shoot only one type of ammo (yes you can reload to fit the rifles harmonics and emulate the trajectory of the rifle sights) like the GP11 in Swiss rifles, the perfect match for the rifle. Needless to say, I think this would be a very interesting show down.
 
My vote is for straight pull bolt action. I throw the Ross and the Lee straight pull into the same catagory. As for accuracy, I'd say the average K31 will outshoot the average Enfield, but there are Enfields that will give a K31 a run for it's money. As far as speed goes, maybe some sort of contest is in order....anyone know where I could find some chargers for my K31?
 
SHELL SHUCKER said:
Or if you thread in plugs to the gas ports of a Winchester 1400 12 guage auto and change out the recoil spring
to a lighter one, then you have a straight pull, spring assisted return, bolt action gun. I call this one a slap bolt
for the obvious reason. Why, you ask? Because as an auto design the Winny 1400's were not durable enough for
the job.;)
watermark.php
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Doesnt matter what you do to a firearm, it was designed as a bolt or semi, thats what it will always be.
The k31 is a bolt action as it is manually operated at the bolt. If it has or ever had a gas system its semi or above.

If your reasoning or the british reasoning worked, then id have tons of `bolt action` machine guns with the gas system pulled off. LOL
 
It has a bolt that has to be physically operated, so yes. Just because Mannlicher designed a straight pull and throw bolt doesn't change what it is, it just changes ease of operation. If you look at all the new Blaser bolt action rifles, I believe they are all the same design. If I had my way, all my bolt actions would be that way ! YES, a bolt action all the way !
 
kennymo said:
My vote is for straight pull bolt action. I throw the Ross and the Lee straight pull into the same catagory. As for accuracy, I'd say the average K31 will outshoot the average Enfield, but there are Enfields that will give a K31 a run for it's money. As far as speed goes, maybe some sort of contest is in order....anyone know where I could find some chargers for my K31?
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Just remember that the adverage Lee Enfield has been to war, oposed to just the firing range. The best way to test them would be to make sure they were in the same condition. Both with good ammo.
 
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