Shout out to all Martini-Henry owners! I have joined the club!***** PICS ADDED****

lt.hicks@rogers.com

lt.hicks@rogers.com

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Well, it's official, I have my P-1885 long lever, hand select, Martini-Henry all the way from Atlanta cutlery paid for and in the mail. Now for the agonizing wait, hoping it will get here in time for me to wrap it for myself for Christmas. I will post pics as soon as it arrives but from what others have said the hand select ones are in amazing shape for their age. If you watch iraqiveteran8888 on youtube, he has a pretty cool range vid of his that he bought from Atlanta Cutlery as well. Truth be told that vid is what finally made me pull the trigger.

Now, this is the first Martini-Henry for me, do any of you wiser collectors have any advice for a young buck? Care, maintenance, maybe even a pet load you might want to share? Anyway, they are a pretty reasonable price, it was in the mail for 650.16 US, with a correct cleaning rod.

-Hicks

**********UPDATED WITH PICS AND ALL IN POST #38**********
 
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If you dont know how to cast bullets yet.................you must learn. Also get ready to learn how to paper patch. Adding machine paper tends to work pretty good.

The guns themselves are wonderful, when you think how advanced they were for the time. For strength, lock time and durability they are the king in my opinion.
 
Casting bullets is not a problem, what mold and lubrisizer do you use? As I don't have a mold yet, I was going to wait until I slugged the bore, and find something in the 450grn weight range and go from there. Any recommendation on lubes? As far as patching, can you not just seat a construction board disc behind the bullet? from my understanding you just need something to keep the grease doughnut from sticking to the underside of the bullet? I don't know, like I said this is all pretty new to me but I am excited.
 
lt.hicks@rogers.com said:
Casting bullets is not a problem, what mold and lubrisizer do you use? As I don't have a mold yet, I was going to wait until I slugged the bore, and find something in the 450grn weight range and go from there. Any recommendation on lubes? As far as patching, can you not just seat a construction board disc behind the bullet? from my understanding you just need something to keep the grease doughnut from sticking to the underside of the bullet? I don't know, like I said this is all pretty new to me but I am excited.
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You dont need a lubesizer, since I started pan lubing I stopped using mine..........for now. This only applies to grease groove bullets of course, pour in the melted lube with the bulets stood up in a pan, stick it in the fridge, push out the bullets from the lube cake with your thumb, so much faster.

I still use Emmerts lube, as runny as I can get away with. For overpowder wads I use old Flexitallic gasket material from work, its about 0.03 thick. Use a milk carton wad under the bullet with the greese cookie betweem the 2 wads (when using paper patch).

The paper patch is the easiest route to go because you can experiment with your patched diameters, the moulds can be on the pricey side so one mould will allow you to experiment with different paper thicknesses, as opposed to when you use greasers, with them you have one diameter and maybe you can size them a tad smaller..........thats it.

The bores on these guns vary greatly. And keep in mind that gun and rifling were designed specifically for a paper patched bullet. The lubricated grooved military bullet is very much an American thing, most of Europe was using paper patch.
 
the mold is a .468"-.470" and 480gr custom mold that replicates the military bullet but in grease groove design cast bullet engineering can make them on demand and lee has them in special runs.

lee dies suck plain and simple they over size the brass for the smallest of the 30+ .577-450 different chamber sizes and also sizes them down for .457" bullets.

id get ch4d dies for .468" bullets you will need a press that can take 1" dies too.

if you are using solid head brass(Jamison) a neck seizer of some sort would be needed(I use .480 ruger dies with a sleeve that go's over the case to stop it from going into the shoulder) .

if using reformed 24ga shotshell brass you only full length size as its semi balloon head and needs to be supported in the chamber.


best starting load is 85gr of FG black powder I use goex on top of the powder a few grains of 100% cotton ball then a grease cookie or lubed felt wads(not going below the neck)

welcome to the world of martinis its a expensive one and an addictive one I my self have had 3 different mk4's(long leaver) and now have nocked it down to one
 
mardig88 said:
How much do these go for
Eventually I'd like to get an ottoman martini Henry
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id stay away from anything coming out of the middle east as there 1 real one for every 1000 fakes. get a British gun IMA USA and Atlanta cutlery has British mk2 and mk4 rifles stay away from the Nepalese francotte and gahendra rifles these are poorly made and should be wall hangers only. it was a stop gap the Nepalese made copy's of the francotte for their military with poor quality materials and there tends to be inclusions once they received British martinis these guns were put into storage

good news is you can find martini here in Canada that served in Canada then are a bit more pricey then the IMA guns but id stay away from anything in .303 most are Khyber pass copy's(these also come in .577-450 so watch out) and unless you know what to look for it could be a bad day for you if you pull the trigger
 
antiqueguy said:
id stay away from anything coming out of the middle east as there 1 real one for every 1000 fakes. get a British gun IMA USA and Atlanta cutlery has British mk2 and mk4 rifles stay away from the Nepalese francotte and gahendra rifles these are poorly made and should be wall hangers only. it was a stop gap the Nepalese made copy's of the francotte for their military with poor quality materials and there tends to be inclusions once they received British martinis these guns were put into storage

good news is you can find martini here in Canada that served in Canada then are a bit more pricey then the IMA guns but id stay away from anything in .303 most are Khyber pass copy's(these also come in .577-450 so watch out) and unless you know what to look for it could be a bad day for you if you pull the trigger
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I have to disagree with a lot of what you are saying. The Khyber Pass replica rifles are actually few and far between. When you do find them, they are pretty obvious.

Now, what you did say about Martinis that were manufactured out of Britain can be very true.

If I get your drift right, you are calling anything made out of Britain a "Khyber Pass" rifle.

Many nations, including Iraq and Afghanistan produced Martini's in their Royal Armories. I have one of the Afghani bring back rifles and it is every bit as good as any of the British made and converted 303 Martinis. Shoots well to.

Antique guy is right on many points though. BE careful with these old girls. They had issues in the field no matter who made them. Most of the issues came from use and abuse with little or no maintenance. I don't know who made a lot of those rifles but they are a strong and robust design that seems to have stood up to time and many illiterate troops and private owners.

They are great rifles. For a while, International Firearms and Marstar used to sell complete receivers and parts. Many people converted these receivers to all sorts of different modern cartridge designs. I had one that was chambered in 257 Roberts. The gunsmith had made up an extractor that worked on a spring assisted sleeve so that it would snap over the rimless designed case when the action closed. Worked every time. To bad it would only handle 87 grain bullets.

I've also got one in 357 Max and another in 257 Maxi. The one rechambered to 30-40 Krag is a dream to shoot. The Martini in 45-70 will handle anything I want to load into it and shoot it well.

So many Martinis and so little time.

Congratulations on your purchase. Let the addiction begin. Almost as bad as Mausers and Lee Enfields.
 
bearhunter said:
I have to disagree with a lot of what you are saying. The Khyber Pass replica rifles are actually few and far between. When you do find them, they are pretty obvious.

Now, what you did say about Martinis that were manufactured out of Britain can be very true.

If I get your drift right, you are calling anything made out of Britain a "Khyber Pass" rifle.

Many nations, including Iraq and Afghanistan produced Martini's in their Royal Armories. I have one of the Afghani bring back rifles and it is every bit as good as any of the British made and converted 303 Martinis. Shoots well to.
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I know there is british rifles that were sent to the middle east all im saying for inexperienced people its best to skip over these guns and find one used here or go to IMA. if you don't know the last batch of Khyber pass copy's were getting better and they are quite widespread because some doorknob company imported them in great numbers and sold the .303 and .577-450 KP rifles as the real deal. I've had two KP rifles I drilled out the firing pin channel and put a rod down the barrel and welded it in
 
I appologise for high-jacking, but I have a question about reloading with the different style of bullets. I have read about how your suspost to use the lube cookie and what not, but is this an accuracy thing, or is this a fowling thing, what is the exact reason for this, I've read lots where guys say to do it but no reason why. Is it detrimental to the rifle to use a normal style cast bullet with lube grooves? forgive my ignorance, but you dont know unless you ask
 
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cornbinder49 said:
I appologise for high-jacking, but I have a question about reloading with the different style of bullets. I have read about how your suspost to use the lube cookie and what not, but is this an accuracy thing, or is this a fowling thing, what is the exact reason for this, I've read lots where guys say to do it but no reason why. Is it detrimental to the rifle to use a normal style cast bullet with lube grooves? forgive my ignorance, but you dont know unless you ask
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the rifle use a paper patch bullet with its military loading. biggest problem is people don't want to invest in a proper grease groove mold these are not cheap and made custom. its a .468"-.470" bullet that weighs 480gr. even with this bullet and a normal loading of 85gr fg black powder you need a fiber filler(100% cotton cotton balls) and wads under the bullet to fill the neck. its a big cartridge and its truly over sized for its charge it will hold over 100gr of fg if filled to the bottom of the neck that's something it should not be fed regularly
 
Pics or it didn't happen.

I use Jamieson brass and a few left-over CIL/Imperial casings that haven't split on my yet. I also use the Lee dies. You HAVE to anneal the necks after every loading - the brass is to expensive to do otherwise.

I started out using a mould I borrowed from Andy on here that is well regarded (bullet on right). I have a few of those bullets left, but honestly, I've had the best results with a pritchet-type mould I made myself. This is a paper-patch solid bullet with no ogives. (bullet on left). I just use regular xerox paper. Lots of guys will tall you what pound of paper and percentage of rag, but I've had luck with normal paper - go figure.



Loaded rounds, left to right, 1) Kynoch commercial, 2) My paper-patched loads, an original UK issue round after they switched to extruded cases.



I load Goex powder topped by partially compressed kapok, then a card wad, a lube cookie (1/2 and 1/2 bees wax and deer tallow), and a second card. The kapok compresses slightly when you seat the bullet, ensuring no air gaps in the cartridge. I made my own wad cutter and use waxed carton to make my cards (milk or ice-cream containers).



My home-made pritchet mold:





When I use ogive-type bullets, I pan lube with the same stuff I make my lube cookies from:



My Canadian-issue MkIII:


 
Forgot to mention, my load is Jamieson cases, WLR primers, 85gr GOEX FFg volumetrically measured (average charge weight for my volumetric measure using FFg is 82gr on the scale), Kapok filer, card, grease cookie, card, bullet.

My PP bullet comes in at 440gr patched and the CBE came in at 490gr lubed. I use the same BP load for both.

Use this load at your own peril. I use it, but am not liable if you do!
 
I will be the first to say that im glad I got rid of my lee dies they are way to hard on the brass. right now I just have my .480 ruger dies to neck size and anneal every few firings my next dies are going to be ch4d for the .468" bullets. I have a lee mold copy of the CBE bullet mine is .468" have yet to cast with it though
 
Ya, I'm sorta debating just fire forming and only thumbing in the bullets. With the patched bulelts, this is possible. I have the Lee dies, but might have to consider grinding them out to a larger inside diameter.
 
Claven2 said:
Pics or it didn't happen.

I use Jamieson brass and a few left-over CIL/Imperial casings that haven't split on my yet. I also use the Lee dies. You HAVE to anneal the necks after every loading - the brass is to expensive to do otherwise.

I started out using a mould I borrowed from Andy on here that is well regarded (bullet on right). I have a few of those bullets left, but honestly, I've had the best results with a pritchet-type mould I made myself. This is a paper-patch solid bullet with no ogives. (bullet on left). I just use regular xerox paper. Lots of guys will tall you what pound of paper and percentage of rag, but I've had luck with normal paper - go figure.



Loaded rounds, left to right, 1) Kynoch commercial, 2) My paper-patched loads, an original UK issue round after they switched to extruded cases.



I load Goex powder topped by partially compressed kapok, then a card wad, a lube cookie (1/2 and 1/2 bees wax and deer tallow), and a second card. The kapok compresses slightly when you seat the bullet, ensuring no air gaps in the cartridge. I made my own wad cutter and use waxed carton to make my cards (milk or ice-cream containers).



My home-made pritchet mold:





When I use ogive-type bullets, I pan lube with the same stuff I make my lube cookies from:



My Canadian-issue MkIII:


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That is a absolutely beautiful rifle in fantastic shape!!

My Martini is a late pattern long lever.

Martinis are great rifles, I surely enjoy my example !

 
I have 3 mk4 martinis 2 are shooters one is parts for a project. Both slug out at .461" and I'm just using .459" cast 45-70 bullets

I also have a mini martini in 310 cadet. I think it may have been modified to take 32H&R mag. 32-20 rims are too thick but chamer when thinned to .055" or it has fairly loose headspace for a .038" rim 310. Bore is .319"

I'm still looking for a butchered mini martini and martini metford martin enfields in 303, and carbines to add to my collection.
 
woodchopper said:
I have 3 mk4 martinis 2 are shooters one is parts for a project. Both slug out at .461" and I'm just using .459" cast 45-70 bullets

I also have a mini martini in 310 cadet. I think it may have been modified to take 32H&R mag. 32-20 rims are too thick but chamer when thinned to .055" or it has fairly loose headspace for a .038" rim 310. Bore is .319"

I'm still looking for a butchered mini martini and martini metford martin enfields in 303, and carbines to add to my collection.
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The MkIV Long Lever is a bit of an exception, they have larger bores than the other military large-bore Martinis (0.470" to 0.472" groove). The MkI though MkIII slug, on average, to 0.465"-0.467" (groove). All martinis have a larger 8" throat and neck down to true bore size, and as far as I know, no special load was developed for the MkIV, unless it is/was still in .402" (unconverted to 577/450).

It would be unusual to see .461". Bore diameter (land to land) should be about .453" in a MkIV. (.449" in a MkI-MkIII)

The 8" throat in MkI-MkIII Martinis is a long taper that measures .468" in the area directly in front of the chamber, then tapers to .465" in the cylinder bore. 0.465" to 0.467" would be a good diameter for an un-patched bullet in a MkI-MkIII. For a MkIV, you may wish to go up to 0.470" to 0.472".


The Mk IV's are rebores and larger. Should not be .461".

When selecting bullets, most shooters aim for a bullet the same diameter as the throat, or if paper patching, slightly larger in the .470" range (patched diameter).
 
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