infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
the thread is about the fastest bolt action rifle, not the most accurate, and the lee is plenty accurate. if we want to talk accuracy, i would present to you the Ross rifle as issued it Canadian troops.
Is the K31 a Bolt Action Rifle? DEBATE
- Thread starter Riflechair
- Start date
the thread is about the fastest bolt action rifle, not the most accurate, and the lee is plenty accurate. if we want to talk accuracy, i would present to you the Ross rifle as issued it Canadian troops.
Kampfhamster
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Switzerland
Now that would be the Sweden Mauser, from Sweden. As in Sweden in Northern Europe. Switzerland is in Central Europe
I don't think there's a huge difference between the Enfield and the K31. How you employed the troops was probably more of a factor. If you're able to shoot a fraction of a second fast, so what? The average rifleman is not alone anyway.
The Swiss always got weapons that are way too complicated and expensive to make. Like the LMG25, the Suomi-SMG. So if we actually had any war experience, we might have ended up with more simpler rifles.
I'd love to have an Enfield, but the ammo is just too expensive over here.
Now that would be the Sweden Mauser, from Sweden. As in Sweden in Northern Europe. Switzerland is in Central Europe
I don't think there's a huge difference between the Enfield and the K31. How you employed the troops was probably more of a factor. If you're able to shoot a fraction of a second fast, so what? The average rifleman is not alone anyway.
The Swiss always got weapons that are way too complicated and expensive to make. Like the LMG25, the Suomi-SMG. So if we actually had any war experience, we might have ended up with more simpler rifles.
I'd love to have an Enfield, but the ammo is just too expensive over here.
is reloading not an option? even here where a enfield is sitting in just about any closet, the price is too high unless you reload
also, you dont realize how close you guys are to each other, as the saying goes, in canada, 100 years is a long time, in europe, 100km is a long distance
Wow...that'd be an awesome deal for ammo of that quality.
"I've been to the ottawa area milsurp shoot and I'll tell you all right now. The worst k31 shooter scored higher accuracy than the best lee enfield shooter. Time was not really a factor - I believe for the average person a lee enfield can fire 10 rounds MUCH faster than the k31. But in accuracy the swiss know no milsurp rival, save from their own brothers shooting 6.5x55.
I don't know where all the patriotic chest thumping about "it saw combat!" comes from. Just because it was used in a war we won, doesn't mean it was the best rifle available. I doubt the commonwealth could have afforded to produce k31s en masse, so it's a moot point anyway!"
"I don't think there's a huge difference between the Enfield and the K31. How you employed the troops was probably more of a factor. If you're able to shoot a fraction of a second fast, so what? The average rifleman is not alone anyway."
All good on a nice clean shooting range but what about at the firing line at the front?? with people shooting back, small explosions all around you from bullet strikes, dirt & debris entering the action, dirty hands handling ammo that you proceed to insert into your rifle, the big factor would be the rate of sustainable fire, rifles will be falling by the way side (both sides), sure some will re-enter the fight but the Lee Enfield will win that side of the fight, as for moa accuracy, not a big factor later in the war as most troop were poorly trained compare to the troops who originally entered the war, most would be firing indiscriminately with some just cycling bolts, in those days there was only a very small percentage of troops who actually did most of the killing.
Whilst I'm under no illusion there are better bolt action rifles than the SMLE, the SMLE is the better "battle rifle"
Really!! you cant compare the effectiveness of a battle rifle on a shooting range.
I don't know where all the patriotic chest thumping about "it saw combat!" comes from. Just because it was used in a war we won, doesn't mean it was the best rifle available. I doubt the commonwealth could have afforded to produce k31s en masse, so it's a moot point anyway!"
"I don't think there's a huge difference between the Enfield and the K31. How you employed the troops was probably more of a factor. If you're able to shoot a fraction of a second fast, so what? The average rifleman is not alone anyway."
All good on a nice clean shooting range but what about at the firing line at the front?? with people shooting back, small explosions all around you from bullet strikes, dirt & debris entering the action, dirty hands handling ammo that you proceed to insert into your rifle, the big factor would be the rate of sustainable fire, rifles will be falling by the way side (both sides), sure some will re-enter the fight but the Lee Enfield will win that side of the fight, as for moa accuracy, not a big factor later in the war as most troop were poorly trained compare to the troops who originally entered the war, most would be firing indiscriminately with some just cycling bolts, in those days there was only a very small percentage of troops who actually did most of the killing.
Whilst I'm under no illusion there are better bolt action rifles than the SMLE, the SMLE is the better "battle rifle"
Really!! you cant compare the effectiveness of a battle rifle on a shooting range.
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
X2. A Cigar for the Man please!
Good point. And lets add the point that in war minute of angle accuracy is not needed. What is needed in war is minute of man accuracy.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Every rifle nut should get a K31 just to appreciate the workmanship and feel of these beasties. Accuracy for sure with a good specimen and as long as one does not try to hot rod their handloads, they are plenty safe to go.
L.E's are the speed kings of the two though.
Far as hot-rodding handloads is concerned, I have found over the past 47 years that most military loadings are a bit too hot for the best accuracy.
I make it a practice to load my "full-house" rounds DOWN from the military standard by about 10%.
Saves wear and tear on the rifles, the bore lasts a lot longer, your shoulder doesn't hurt as much and it is slightly cheaper.
And your groups REALLY tighten up!!!
I make it a practice to load my "full-house" rounds DOWN from the military standard by about 10%.
Saves wear and tear on the rifles, the bore lasts a lot longer, your shoulder doesn't hurt as much and it is slightly cheaper.
And your groups REALLY tighten up!!!
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
I fully agree. I go further than that by shooting lead at around 1300fps. for target & no more than 1500 for hunting big game. The savings in bore life and brass are huge and the critters can't tell the difference either. Casting yer own boolits is both an art as well as a money saver, especially for us shmoes that shoot lots.
Thinking the same way now a days. The large 30 cals for the most part are gonna get moderate loads of pistol powder and cast bullets to save all around.
and yes the K31s are bolt actions
IMHO, if you can't work a Lee Enfield bolt faster than a K31 bolt, you are doing something wrong. There's a technique to quickly doing it, of course.
And I would say The Ross MkIII bolt is faster than the K31 also. It has a faster unlocking time IMHO. IT is also arguably more accurate. It won Bisley awfully handily before the Brits banned it for being too accurate.
Every rifle nut should get a K31 just to appreciate the workmanship and feel of these beasties. Accuracy for sure with a good specimen and as long as one does not try to hot rod their handloads, they are plenty safe to go.
L.E's are the speed kings of the two though.
I have one. They are accurate shooters with a high degree of fit and finish, but they are bulky and not terribly elegant. Not my favourite rifle, by a long shot. I can't knock their accuracy though.
infideleggwelder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Sorry guys. Did not make it to the range for the mad minute. Did it out back of mother in laws on the beach with a mk3 and was able to easily did twenty. Don't have chargers so had to change mags. Lost rest of time reloading mags, but was 18 rd, ten inch group centre of mass on man size target. Two wingers. did that in 37 to 40 sec. Was about - 17 (-23 windchill). Range was 120 paces in the snow. I'm sure anyone with chargers or a schmig more experience would have done better. No k31 to compare with so might have to buy one....
