New to AR's. Learn me up.

.284

.284

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So I'm new to AR's but not to shooting. I'd like to get an accurate "shorter" barreled ar rifle for target shooting at the range. My range is 600 yards. When I check the EE I really have no idea what's good and what's not and am totally lost when guys start listing off all the mods and mixing and matching uppers and lowers.

I think I'd like a piston operated gun with iron sights to which I can add an optic to dial out for the 600 yard shots. Is it possible to have both sights on at the same time?

I've read up on the differences between the 5.56 version, 223 and the Wylde chamber. I do reload but I'm not sure if most guys just shoot factory or not. If I was to buy factory ammo which chambering has the best options for heavier ammo out to 600 yards? I'm leaning towards 223 rem

I see there there is 7,8 and 12 twists that are common and think that an 8 is probably about what I'm looking for?

I'd probably like to go with a heavier barrel.

I would be shooting prone mostly as well so is there something I should look for in order to attach a bipod? I mostly just use harris swivel bi pods. Is there something that works better for this platform?

So I guess what I'm looking for is some recommendations on rifles that fit my description and which dealers carry them. Mid price range.

Thanks
.284
 
You can have both irons and an optic at same time, have a co witness of 1/2 or 1/3 depending on height of optic. You can also have flip up sites that are not in the way when using the magnified optic or have offset sights like knights armament 45 degree iron sites. Or buy an elcan specter with a throw lever that quick changes from 1x to 4x. Your options will depend on your budget.

As for reloading or not, I don't know much I just shoot factory.

As for chamber, 556 will allow you to handle the hotter 556 round but a 223 cannot use a 556. A 223 is more accurate I believe as it has a better fitting between chamber and ammo. The wylde has the fitting of a
223 but can use 556 so I believe it's a better option but I don't see them
very often and may limit your options.

The debate between piston and gas goes on. but I believe piston maybe slightly less accurate do to the moving mass attached to barrel.

As for twist , 1:7 and 1:9 is common no? haven't heard much of 1:8. That decision depends on your ammo weight. 62 gr will be more accurate with the higher twist rate but more expensive.

As for heavy barrel, yes I agree, but someone with more knowledge can argue whether it should be chrome lined or stainless.

I recommend a Daniel Defense DDM4, as a good mid range best bang for buck rifle. I have one and absolutely love it. I have a Geissele
2 stage trigger which you may want to look into. If your budget is higher then invest in LMT or Noveske or Knights Armament. But DD is really a great rifle.

Harris bipod works great.
 
As a starting Rifle into the Black Rifle world, a good used Nork CQA would be a good start at 600 or less shipped to you. Also watch the EE for some great deals on new or like new US made guns. My son got a brand new M15A4 Armalite for $1000 delivered at the door. The finish and fit is awesome on this one.

Get the 14.5" version if buying a Nork, base rifle only so don't buy someone else's 500 dollars of dodads till you know what you want, and it will allow you to master the great Iron sights, strip and maintenance the AR rifle properly ,and will work good out to 300meters and even further with cheap 55gr FMJ ammo. This is a classic copy of the M4A1 service rifle with 1/9" twist, the heavy, chrome lined barrel with M203 cut out. Great for the 55gr we fire lots of. It will handle 62 gr as well if it's available to you for a decent price.

This was my conservative entrance into the bottomless Black rifle world, the Nork served me well for 1000 plus rounds, and now I've passed it on to another new AR shooter and co-worker for a decent price( 500 with two mags and case). If you don't wreck it, you should always be able to get nearly what you pay for it used, if you find you are an AR addict and you want to upgrade to a nicer finished and better fit Canadian or US gun that you can build to you liking with lots of DoDads added. If you find you rarely shoot an AR, then for the price, the Nork could stay as is in your gun safe, not making you feel like you've tied up thousands and it doesn't cost anything to feed it if it sits there.
 
here is what I can offer:

ammo
- 55 gr - 1/9 twist
- 62 gr + - 1/7-1/8 twist - this is more accurate at 400-600 yds and beyond.

chamber
- if you are definitely going to be using 556 ammo at any time, then get a 556 chamber. if not, go 223 or 223 wylde

Barrel length
- 0-300 yds - 7-10.5 inch bbl
- 0-600 yds - 14.5-24 inch bbl
- if you want something that is as short as you can go but will perform at 600, then look at 14.5 inch min and seriously consider 16-18 inch.
- remember, barrel quality is one of the most significant things for accuracy

Handguard
- free float - if you want tactical - go with daniel defense, KAC, Larue, Fortis, et al, if you want non-tactical then any tubular free float will work. You can attach a bipod to either model.

brands
- pay once cry once - do your research here.

optics
- depends on your eyes and end use.
- 1-4x reasonable up close to 600 (600 a stretch but doable)
- 1-8x better
- or 3-9x good for your needs if nothing up close needed
- leupold, vortex, nightforce, et al

Boltgun
 
I prefer the 1:8 with a Wylde chamber for semi auto .223 rifles.
1:8 is fast enough to stabilize most bullets you will be able to load to fit the mag of an AR. 1:7 is also a fine option but I don't think it's really needed unless you have a bolt action and are running really heavy projectiles. Keep in mind you can't overstabilize a bullet but you can spin it faster than it's built to withstand and have it come apart after leaving the muzzle so some really light bullets or really thin jacketed light varmint bullets may not like a 1:7.
If you want the most accuracy you should consider a DI rifle as it is a more accurate platform.
You haven't said what kind of budget you have so I'll assume you don't want to spend $2000+ on a rifle. In which case pretty much any brand as long as it is quality can be made just as accurate as a high end rifle with a freefloat handguard and a high quality barrel. For a mid priced DI gun I think Spikes and Daniel Defense offer a very good rifle (there are others but those are the first two that came to mind).
I currently own 2 PWS piston rifles and they are very accurate and extremely reliable. If you don't mind the price then those or the Adcore are probably a couple of the best options for a piston rifle.
If money is no object then anything from Noveske, LMT, BCM, Knights, JP etc will definitely be rifles you will never sell to buy a better one.

I've found that myself personally, I don't ever use the iron sights again after I zero them and then install optics. They are there just in case but since I am now running an ACOG and an Elcan Specter DR on my two favorite .223's I can't imagine ever having my optics fail on me. If they are tough enough for the military I'm sure there isn't much I am going to put them through that will stress them.

Another option if you want an AR style rifle but might like the idea of making it non restricted is the ACR from Bushmaster. I just picked one up and am really impressed. Like a cross breed of the AR and the AR18 with a quick change barrel system.

Good luck
 
.284 said:
It looks like a lot of you are running DI rifles with the general thoughts being that they are more accurate.
Anyone have any thoughts on the stag 3G? I haven't seen any comments on those yet. They seem to be along the lines of what I'm interested in - I am not hung up on a piston so one of these may work.

Is there any reason a heavy barrel can't be swapped onto any other receiver? Assuming the existing furniture fits the larger barrel profile.

Budget wise I'd rather buy once
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Stag is fine, but I think at that price point there are many companies that produce quality rifles like , Sig Sauer , Core 15, Windham , Bushmaster. But again, maybe I'm bias , the Daniel Defence really stands out. Watch the Daniel Defence torture test (the first one). but continue to do your research. Look into what kind of rail you want and whether flattop or with a front post etc.

P.S. Which are do you live in ? If lower mainland let me know and I can take you shooting and you can get an idea of what an AR -15 shoots like and whether you like them or not.
 
Kanwar88 said:
Stag is fine, but I think at that price point there are many companies that produce quality rifles like , Sig Sauer , Core 15, Windham , Bushmaster. But again, maybe I'm bias , the Daniel Defence really stands out. Watch the Daniel Defence torture test (the first one). but continue to do your research. Look into what kind of rail you want and whether flattop or with a front post etc.

P.S. Which are do you live in ? If lower mainland let me know and I can take you shooting and you can get an idea of what an AR -15 shoots like and whether you like them or not.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for the offer but I'm across the pond on the island.
 
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