What is happening when loading my 22-250........

sharp shooter

sharp shooter

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Ok, something funny going on here.

I am loading for My Sako AII 22-250.
I removed the firing pin and spring out of my bolt to find out how far out I can seat my bullets. I am using older 0nce fired WW cases, 50gr V-Max, 50gr BK, and 53 grain Sierra HP match. The problem is happening with all bullets.

So,
I full length sized my cases (they are trimmed to proper length), and started seating the above bullets into un-primed, FL sized cases in increments and loading them in my rifle with the firing pin out of the bolt to find out how far out I could seat the bullets until they touched the lands. I did this with a few cases and bullets (of the same type) to get an average for each bullet. I then seated the 3 bullets of each type an average of .020 off the lands. I ran them through they rifle and had no issues closing the bolt, you couldn't even tell they were there.

Then,
I primed and charged the cases with 39 grains of H380 and seated bullets to .020" off the lands. I ran them through the rifle with the out the firing pin again but now it was stiff to close the bolt?!

I put the firing pin back in the bolt and it the bolt closes stiffly with the loaded casing but not with the uncharged cases with bullets seated to the same depth.

The powder only filled the case to to the top of the shoulder so the base of the bullets shouldn't be touching the powder and when the loaded cases are shook, you can here the powder in there.

There was no visible runout on the cases before or after seating the bullets.

Is the fine H380 ball powder bulging my shoulder a touch?
 
I highly doubt the powder is the culprit as all powders have a pretty good tendency to compress under a bullet and not affect your COAL. I would get yourself a bullet comparator to make sure this is the case though as you often cannot rule out a problem untill you get a physical number to attach to it.

1. your FL size die might not have been touching the Shell Holder or enough to bump the shoulder of the case back after firing.

2. You might not have seated the primer deep enough. I don't think you mentioned how many times fired your brass was or if it was virgin. Make sure the pockets are clean and give it a good push to seat them below the case head. I have had proud primers before so I know that it is possible.

3. After looking on the Hodgdon website http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
It looks like your charge of 39 grains of H380 is just above the starting load. If your scale is accurate I think that you can rule this possibility out.

Good Luck,
Evan
 
its not the primer, they are seated perfect. The shell holder was touching the base of the die firmly as well. I sized all cases first. and seated all the bullets to the same depth. The un-charged, primed, seated cases loaded with no issue. They charged cases had an issue. I am lost on this one.
 
Has your seating die adjustment been touched since the first dummy loads were made up, or was it locked in place when you made up the first dummy loads?
 
Had a similar problem with a savage 22-250.Was using Lyman shell holder with a rcbs sizing die. Changed shell holder and worked well.
 
It wasn't touched. In fact, on one of the loaded rounds I seated the bullet MUCH deeper and still the same thing.
Click to expand...

I was talking about the die body itself, not the seater plug adjustment. I would try backing off the actual seater die body 1/4 turn or so, and then readjusting the seater plug to obtain the correct COL.
 
The only similar thing that happened once to me was my bullet seater didn't match the shape of my bullet nose properly and if I wasn't careful the bullets would seat at a slight angle which would deform the case neck (sometimes even creasing it!). Check the inside of your bullet seater too. Sometimes a grain or two of powder will find their way in there and #### the bullet over to one side on seating. Another thing you can do is cover the complete cartridge in magic marker and chamber it, this should give you some feedback on EXACTLY where the issue is. Goodluck!
 
Ok fellas,
Even after this "problem" was found, I immediately took a resized, primed un charged case, and seated a bullet to the same length as the loaded cases and the problem was gone again. I spent hours trying to figure this out yesterday. I firmly believe that it has something to do with that specific powder charge......I tried 30grains, and the problem was gone again. 39grains, the problem was back. But I don't get it, the powder only filled the case to just above the shoulder line, so there is lots of room for the bullet! I am almost ready to just forget about it. The bottom of the seater die is far from the top of the shell holder.
 
try this,,,

seat a bullet in an uloaded case, chamber make sure it fits.. if it does, messure it.. both OAL and OD neck Dia.

useing the same case and bullet (i assume you have a bullet puller) prime, charge and seat bullet. try cambering, if its stiff, measure OAL and neck Dia again..

id like to hesitate a guess that the necks on your brass MIGHT be to thin for your die (assuming your useing a standard rcbs or the like die) to give adequate neck tension.. or being WW brass, whos QC seemes to have droped, the neck are to hard and spring back to much
 
ultimate_monkey said:
try this,,,

seat a bullet in an uloaded case, chamber make sure it fits.. if it does, messure it.. both OAL and OD neck Dia.

useing the same case and bullet (i assume you have a bullet puller) prime, charge and seat bullet. try cambering, if its stiff, measure OAL and neck Dia again..

id like to hesitate a guess that the necks on your brass MIGHT be to thin for your die (assuming your useing a standard rcbs or the like die) to give adequate neck tension.. or being WW brass, whos QC seemes to have droped, the neck are to hard and spring back to much
Click to expand...

The neck diameter and case wall diameter below the shoulder and above the base are the same with both.
 
stubblejumper said:
Has your seating die adjustment been touched since the first dummy loads were made up, or was it locked in place when you made up the first dummy loads?
Click to expand...

H4831 said:
Turn your seating die out a quarter turn and lock it.
Problem gone.
Click to expand...

stubblejumper said:
I was talking about the die body itself, not the seater plug adjustment. I would try backing off the actual seater die body 1/4 turn or so, and then readjusting the seater plug to obtain the correct COL.
Click to expand...

When I first read the OPs opening description, this was my initial reaction. Then the OP assured us that this was not the case and my "un-noticed crimping/crushing" idea went out the window.

ultimate_monkey said:
try this,,,

seat a bullet in an uloaded case, chamber make sure it fits.. if it does, messure it.. both OAL and OD neck Dia.

useing the same case and bullet (i assume you have a bullet puller) prime, charge and seat bullet. try cambering, if its stiff, measure OAL and neck Dia again..

id like to hesitate a guess that the necks on your brass MIGHT be to thin for your die (assuming your useing a standard rcbs or the like die) to give adequate neck tension.. or being WW brass, whos QC seemes to have droped, the neck are to hard and spring back to much
Click to expand...
Then, this was my next thought, but after re-reading, the OP wasn't having problems with loose bullets or a lack or neck tension whilst seating them. Also, same bullet, no powder seated fine. And, certainly, that amount of compressed air won't force a bullet out 0.020".
So, out of ideas here, but I will be watching this for a solution.
 
I once was given a bunch of older 22-250 WW brass that was shot from a auto loader.. (I did not know this) I FL sized the brass and checked them and they fit.. Put the powder in and seated the bullet.. they would not chamber... I had to pull them all apart and what I figured out (Thanks to a Black Magic Marker) what was happening was after the bullet was seated the necks were actually stretching up and making the case longer than supposed to be punching the shoulder down and out when seating.. I actually had to re-size and trim each brass twice.. Trim then re-size and then trim again after.. this then cured the issue... Only Problem after that was I got very limited brass life (3-5 shots) do to the over expansion of the auto-loader im guessing ?
 
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