Tavor: Time To **** Or Get Off The Pot!

O

One Lung Wonder

BANNED
BANNED
BANNED
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Location
Aaaaaadmontin AB
Well boys, I could sure use a hand from any of you knowledgeable black rifle geeks because I am just vapour locked! Here is my conundrum: my current ride is a chit house garden variety AR15 Bushie with a heavy barrel. Oh, I loves me my AR15! Mine wears a Zeiss 3x9 in a quick release PEPPR mount and I have been pleased as punch with it.




This is 150 yards, from the sitting position today in heavy blowing snow. Those two at one o'clock are line cutters; so out of 25 I managed to put 20 in the black. Yeah, I know...I need to hit the range more often...anyhoo, this beast is pretty darn fine once I sling up, sober up and do my homework and range practice. Off the bench with sand bags it will go sub MOA or just over.

The other day some ignoramus posted a thread about Timney coming out with a trigger for the Tavor and I started getting evil thoughts...and they aren't going away. I was up all night on Youtube and surfing far and wide to get a feel for this gun and it seems that the issue of accuracy from the Tavor is not really being addressed properly. There is no doubt in my mind that this beast is just perfect as 'insurgent detergent' for the IDF or a good choice for the 'Run N' Gun' crowd. Things tend to get sketchy when we start talking about accuracy though. I am seeing groups run anywhere from 2" on out...and most seem to be quite a bit bigger. I have yet to come across any info where the shooter properly sandbagged the rifle and started working up loads.

Guys - I can live with a 2 or 2.5 MOA gun. I cannot live with a 6 MOA gun that costs $2750.00. In your opinion is this gun capable of that? If so, I will pawn the AR and go with the Tavor, crappy trigger and all! Unlike regular folks I love the bullpup concept...but I also like to sling up and shoot from the positions too. Can you do with your Tavor what I did with the AR in the pic above? Can you even sling up with the Tavor?

As usual Gentlemen, your scholarly opinions and real world experiences are solicited and appreciated. I have too many friggin guns and ordinarily would just buy the Tavor and hang on to the AR...but things are stupid in the gun safe so I can't have both!
 
Ahem.

As that ignoramus who brought up the Timney trigger . . . :rolleyes:

. . . wait and see! The current gen Tavors have nicer triggers than the first imports. And the US aftermarket is just getting started.

Lots of people will tell you different stories about accuracy of their individual rifle. Mine hits what I aim at.
 
Did you do a Youtuber on it TV? If so I think I saw it - not bad either. I actually finally found one where the reviewer actually sandbags it at the bench and fires it at 100 yards as a formal accuracy test - groups seem to be running around 2.5 inches. Does that jive with you, TV? (You are a bad influence by the way).

I shoot out at Sherwood Park, Stormchaser. Fact is that I shot a couple out of a Tavor a year back off my hind feet and missed by a mile because that trigger felt like the one on a Bostich nail gun. Mind you I did some very good shooting with an old Mauser 98 war horse with a terrible trigger too so I suppose I could get used to it. I am using a standard 3x9 Zeiss hunting scope on my AR...would this glass work with the Tavor? Seems to me you guys are using low power variables when you are not using red dots...
 
Hey One, I have have a few Tan Tavor's on order, we'll grab one and head out to SPGR, should be early Jan (hope Jon an North Sylva sends them early....).

I have an Eotech EXPS3-0 and G33 magnifier we can use but if you want to bring something else, go for it! The higher the grain ammo the better. Ill bring a few types of ammo but around 75g seems ideal.

Good shooting by TV but that large green backpack is a keg he travels with (I tease I tease).

BEE49C25-F09E-4129-A19B-DA3A1B21C558-3246-000002786FDDE710_zpscb483d9c.jpg
 
I took my DDM4 V5 (SSA-E Geiselle Trigger) and my Tavor (trigger spring removed) out to the range yesterday to compare them. I was shooting wolf 55gr ammo.

From standing the accuracy I achieved at the 50 yard mark was nearly the same. The AR I know to be a bit more
accurate but the Tavor is easier to hold. For the trigger pull it didnt make too much of a difference, for the DD I pull first stage and wait for the red dot to come over the target and pull the second. For the Tavor I pull on the initial creep and likewise pull the next 'stage'. I really enjoyed shooting standing with the Tavor the balance is phenomenal, my younger sister had much better accuracy with the Tavor simply because she could keep the gun steady, she said, 'with the DD I feel like I'm trying to hold it up, with the Tavor I'm just hugging it'.

As for bench shooting, end resting on shooting bags, the DD is superior. I was able to achieve 3 moa with the DD (aimpoint pro no magnification , wolf ammo 55gr). With the Tavor I was getting 4.5 moa (eotech 552, wolf ammo 55 gr). The DD is a fricking laser, any inaccuracy is really down to the 55 gr ammo and lack of magnification. As for the Tavor, the heavy trigger pull didnt make much of a difference, the trigger is fine (sure it's on the heavier side but with the spring removed, and the very crisp pull' it did not negatively effect my accuracy). The inaccuracy is definately from the 55 gr ammo, the eotech and inherently the design. I have minor astigmatism in my right eye (shooting eye) and after staring at the dot for long periods of time it begins to wash out and have to look away and reacquire the target, or shoot quicker as to prevent fatigue (believe it or not I was more accurate shooting faster).

After the range day, all I can really say is, they are somewhat different animals. Everything from the accuracy, to the way one holds the rifles. I feel the Tavor is designed for quick shots on humans at closer ranges, while the AR is for more careful shot placement further out. I wonder if a DD MK18 can be the best of both worlds, accuracy and handling.

Of course I could have achieved better accuracy with either rifle using magnified optics, but then the question comes down to what your use is. Either rifle is more than acceptable for either use CQB or Service Rifle. But they do have a predisposition.
 
Last edited:
One Lung Wonder said:
Well boys, I could sure use a hand from any of you knowledgeable black rifle geeks because I am just vapour locked! Here is my conundrum: my current ride is a chit house garden variety AR15 Bushie with a heavy barrel. Oh, I loves me my AR15! Mine wears a Zeiss 3x9 in a quick release PEPPR mount and I have been pleased as punch with it.

Click to expand...
From what I have seen from the shooters of the tavor at my local range and the few times I have been able to shoot one your target above seems about right.

I couldn't do anything better with it and I figure it has to do with the trigger and not that it is a bullpup. I own an RFB and I can shoot MOA with it using premium factory ammo.

There are a few people who claim theirs is accurate but it is hard for me to say for sure what it is capable of without seeing it myself.
 
I sold mine as it grouped like my $150 SKS

Not very impressed, maybe the C8 spoiled me for accuracy
 
Yep i shot mine today and it was like that at 100 yards, but i had a bad shooting day. Its not just the trigger though, i find my tavor really likes heavier 77 grain bullets, on the 55 grain i'm running it at 8 moa. With the 77 grain i get about 4 moa.

It was never intended as a greatly accurate rifle though so... But yes your accuracy report is correct. Im waiting for the trigger and then i'll decide what i do with it.
 
Many of the "bad accuracy" reports from the Tavor are a result of using 55 grain ammo in them. For some reason the Tavor really seems to shoot a lot better with stuff in the 62 to 77 grain range. I have one. I have no intention of getting rid of it. I am looking forward to trying some 3 gun with it this coming summer as compared to an AR.
 
8 ball said:
Many of the "bad accuracy" reports from the Tavor are a result of using 55 grain ammo in them. For some reason the Tavor really seems to shoot a lot better with stuff in the 62 to 77 grain range. I have one. I have no intention of getting rid of it. I am looking forward to trying some 3 gun with it this coming summer as compared to an AR.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's just that 77 grain ammo is pretty damn expensive so people use 55 grain and expect it not to pepper away like a shot gun.
 
RobMcKay said:
Maybe with crate ammo, but I bet it will do way better with hand loads.
Click to expand...

That is handloads.

Free floating the barrel shaves 1 moa off of that.

Bare in mind, I'm defining what it shoots in a true sense. The average of five, five round groups on the same piece of paper. From a solid rested position.
None of this cherry picked three round group nonsense.
 
Well I noticed that too. Everyone says it is "not a precision gun!!!"

But it DOES have a 1:7" twist rate which to me - means heavier bullets. Why are all the reviewers running bargain bin 55 grainers through it? Why hasn't somebody cobbled together some effective sand bags to accommodate the odd configuration of the rifle - and carefully developed handloads using the heavier bullets? ntm makes a valid point too...the tight groups I have seen by the Youtube reviewers do seem to be 'cherry picked'. If you tell me your gun is a sub MOA rifle, I would expect it to do that all the time.

And this is truly the evil that TV started: Maybe the Tavor isn't a precision gun out of the box...but can it be made into one? Timney has jumped into the fray with their fine triggers; how hard would it be to get air gauged match barrels for them?

Is it worth the effort to try and tune the Tavor and mod it to semi-precision levels? The AR started out the same way as a simple fighting gun - and not a very good one at that depending on who you listened to. Today it can go from Afghanistan to Camp Perry just by punching a few pins out and dropping in a trigger and upper! This is exactly what ticks me off about the AR too - it is truly a 'do it all gun' and I would be quite happy with it...but the morons put it on the restricted list! I would love to go out after gophers and coyotes with it or take it camping out in the bush...
 
I am going back to the range again today. I will try to compare
wolf, AE, norinco, and then I'll try to find some 62gr ammo.
 
User "Caramel" has a Tavor.

Sub MOA at 600 yards all day long, with Norc ammo too.....

You guys just can't shoot well....


Laugh2
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom