High end rifles purchased by newbie shooters.....good idea or bad?

[sylencer]

Definately. I will still go out with my Savage 17hmr and shoot at 100/200yards all day with that (plus the g/f prefers shooting this rifle) as opposed to shooting my 308 with match grade all the time. Its definately a money saver and all the principals are there

 

[Brian46]

Basics would be anything a new shooter needs to know. (zeroing a scope, breathing, follow through, trigger pull, etc.)

The reason I say a cheaper rifle is better to learn on, is that if you make a mistake that damages the rifle or optic, you didn't just ruin an expensive piece of kit.

I have seen guys not torque down a scope enough because they didn't know... the scope hit the floor and broke...

Also a decent .22 can teach you a lot about getting a good group with a couple hundred rounds, instead of say a .308. saving a couple hundred dollars to invest in a better rifle once they know what they are doing.

Like I said before, if someone who never shot before wants a PWG in .338, by all means buy it, but don't expect accuracy when they are jerking the trigger, hot breathing properly, and not consistently using a proper hold at $4.00 a round.

You appear to be talking about someone buying their first rifle ever since you believe they have no previous experience shooting at all by the above comments, that is not what the OP stated in his first post.

So the debate is whether newbies should go out and buy a high end precision rifle (something like I don't know, a TRG or Coyote we'll say) or if they should buy something like a Savage or a Remington for their first rifle. Before we continue I want to make it clear that we are talking about new to precision shooting, not to shooting in general.

So again I will ask what the "basics" are that you mentioned are better learned on a budget rifle? (keeping in mind that this is no longer someones first rifle ever and they already have experience with shooting like the op stated)

 

[Daver_II]

You appear to be talking about someone buying their first rifle ever since you believe they have no previous experience shooting at all by the above comments, that is not what the OP stated in his first post.

Fair enough, Must have missed that.

In that case. Fill your boots, buy what you can afford.... and afford to feed.

 

[stevey3737]

"a bucket of .22 for $25"

I just paid 100 bucks for that bucket lol, but it solidifies your point guns are expensive but shooting them is probably more so if you want to get good

 

[Brian46]

Less expensive doesn't necessarily mean lower quality or not as accurate. It's not uncommon to buy factory varmint/precision rifles that can approach .5 MOA with handloads or excellent quality match grade ammunition like Lapua or Federal GMM.

Your rifle will only be as accurate and consistent as you are. If your shooting technique and basic shooting skills are not up to task, you'll never realize the full potential of the equipment your using because YOU are the limiting factor - not your rifle. You ARE going to be the beginner driver in the shiny new Porche. Until you can say that you've reached the point where you can truly say that you're being held back because of your current set up, throwing money at it isn't the solution. It'll only frustrate and discourage you. Then you'll possibly end up selling it because of the disappointment.

Want proof? Go to the EE now and look at all the high end TRG 42's and other makes there for sale with few rounds down range. Guys who bought into the "tactical long range kool aid" and then decided to bail on it for whatever reason. Ever wonder why that is?

In the end, if buying what you want makes you happy, that's what you should buy. However, be realistic about your expectations and goals from the beginning. If buying a TRG 22 and calling it a day is what you want then go for it! In .308 Win. I'm sure a lot of TRG 22 owners will never shoot it enough to wear the barrel out to begin with and maybe give you a life time's service. If not, barrels are cheap compared to the money you're going to spend on quality ammo so don't sweat it.

buying top of the line to start precision shooting has it's advantages doesn't it? kinda like how people say "spend once". Regardless of rifle there is a learning curve, and with some rifles it is more or less because of the parts in it.

I see an advantage to learning on one top of the line platform from the start in precision, no need to upgrade and re learn the mechanics with each small upgrade from your budget setup resulting in you becoming a better shooter faster. It also saves a lot of money along the way from selling old parts at a loss or simply guns sitting in the safe because it wont sell for a decent price. It will also be less frustrating because you wont be questioning the equipment as your ability increases, I have seen people held back by their rifle/optics/ammo and they figured it was their ability and never upgraded, they had no clue of their ability till they tried someone elses more capable equipment.

 

[Astute Observer]

I've got time in the army, but I'm new to private firearm ownership. So I'm not TOTALLY out to lunch on marksmanship and shooting, but I'm by no means an avid shooter. So when I decided to buy my first firearm last spring, I came to this very question myself - do I get an entry level rifle, mid-range, or dip into the home line of credit and buy the Lambourghini Diablo of firearms?

I came to other questions that I had to ask myself: How serious will I be with my new hobby? How much time will I devote to it? Can I recoup my initial investment if I find it's not for me?

So I decided to go one notch above midrange, simple action, and buy used.

Why not an entry level? Because it's never going to be the limiting factor in my performance. My own eyesight, shakey hands and half-ass technique will be the limiting factor. I will never have to blame the gun for my performance.
Why not a new one? Because if I buy a solid used setup for $1200, one year later with about 400 rounds downrange, I can probably still sell it for $1000 if I do decide to upgrade. A new rifle would depreciate faster.
Why not a top of the line Lambourghini? I probably won't ever put enough rounds downrange to improve my marksmanship to the point where I would get any advantage out of a $6k setup.

Now if I were a different person (say freshly retired with plenty of buyout money and lots of time on my hands) my answers to those questions would be different. But for a city-living, working 40 hours a week joe with a mortgage, I think I made a good choice.

 

[C.Tremblay]

I actually do no real precision shooting (defensive CQC shooting), But my .02 cents would be by a low price knock off of what you think you want. I found I spent over $4000 on optics that I took off and sold because I bought the best and found out I did not like them. once you know you like a certain style of sight and it works for you, then fork out the cash for the real high quality version. I did get about 3/4 of my money back on the sights I have sold but the losses I took would have payed for the cheap knock offs to have found out what I liked. one example would be EoTech, I bought two and thought they were the best; then I put a vortex (aim point copy) on my .22 cause it was cheap, and well now my two EOTechs and a copy are for sale on the EE. I love my Elcan on my 5.56, but I found it limiting on the 7.62.

As for the rifle, I would say the same principal applies, but I have not swapped up on any rifles yet, seems the ones I bought I just love and i am happy I bought the best.

Now when I want to buy a bolt action long range (which is comming), I would purchase a rem 700 one step lower than the match grade and shoot it till i figure what I want from the rifle. Do I think an AW Chassis would be best, do I shoot enough to justify the barrel up grade; ect. I have $6500 tied up in a XCR-M with a $2700 scope that I shoot maybe every 3 months, I am just not into long range...

 

[sylencer]

I think one thing that should be mentioned and hasn't yet is that. Before deciding on a high end rifle. To get out to the range and get the opportunity to try the rifles before you purchase. The last thing you want to do is buy a rifle and then find out you just can't get comfortable behind it.

 

[sylencer]

I actually do no real precision shooting (defensive CQC shooting), But my .02 cents would be by a low price knock off of what you think you want. I found I spent over $4000 on optics that I took off and sold because I bought the best and found out I did not like them. once you know you like a certain style of sight and it works for you, then fork out the cash for the real high quality version. I did get about 3/4 of my money back on the sights I have sold but the losses I took would have payed for the cheap knock offs to have found out what I liked. one example would be EoTech, I bought two and thought they were the best; then I put a vortex (aim point copy) on my .22 cause it was cheap, and well now my two EOTechs and a copy are for sale on the EE. I love my Elcan on my 5.56, but I found it limiting on the 7.62.

As for the rifle, I would say the same principal applies, but I have not swapped up on any rifles yet, seems the ones I bought I just love and i am happy I bought the best.

I have to disagree with you on here. When it comes to glass. Buying a knock off cheaper version scope, assuming its like the original would be a wrong assumption in my eyes. I believe there is a reason why high end glass costs as much as it does and why you don't see to many people using the knock off ones.

I am only talking about knock offs and not just lower quality scopes.

 

[C.Tremblay]

I have to disagree with you on here. When it comes to glass. Buying a knock off cheaper version scope, assuming its like the original would be a wrong assumption in my eyes. I believe there is a reason why high end glass costs as much as it does and why you don't see to many people using the knock off ones.

I am only talking about knock offs and not just lower quality scopes.

Your not wrong, it makes sense, this was just my experience.

I would think that in my case I am happy with it, but I was looking for a scope and was not sure what objective and tube diameter, recital, zoom level, controls I wanted. I purchased the Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50. had I realized I hated the recital or some features i bet it would only sell for $2000 leaving me with a $700 loss, which is enough to buy a comparable viper PST.

I actually backed out and seen the new vortex products post

RZR-42705 Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56 Riflescope with EBR-2C Reticle (25 MOA Turrets) $2,499.99 hmmm... maybe I will end up selling my razor too lol

 

[Bloodstriker]

I went from CX4 (which taught me nothing about precision) to a Savage HMR to a TRG 22 w/ S&B 5-25x56.

I would say go high end if you can afford it. As of today, I see no reasoni should have started with a 700.

 

[smellofspentcasings]

The best thing about owning top of the line firearms and optics is you can't blame poor shooting on them. If you have the money buy the best .

 

[slvdout]

I find this discussion quite interesting mainly because I'm just getting into the precision game. I have just purchased a savage 12 F-class in 6.5x284 and am looking for a scope right now. I am having a hard time deciding what to buy for a couple of reasons. I will mainly be shooting at my home range which only goes out to 300m, I'm sure that a 6x24 0r an 8x32 Sightron will be more than adequate for my needs. However I find myself looking at high end Nightforce. My question is "is there such a thing as too much scope for the gun it's going on?" Should I buy a high end scope that exceeds my needs simply because I can afford it or stick with something a little more suited to the rifle and the shooting I will be doing with it?

 

[sillymike]

I don't remember any new shooter having trouble buying too-much quality (if they have the $$)... But I remember a fee guys buying too-much gun!... Learning to shoot and manage the recoil at the same time can be step learning curve.

 

[AWOL]

I golf with lots of guys who own Ping or Callaway and they shoot 100+. They don't care but at very least, they can't blame the equipment. I say "buy once, cry once". I aim to get the best bang for my bucks but try to never compromise quality for saving money.

 

[slvdout]

I golf with lots of guys who own Ping or Callaway and they shoot 100+. They don't care but at very least, they can't blame the equipment. I say "buy once, cry once". I aim to get the best bang for my bucks but try to never compromise quality for saving money.

I disagree with this analogy.. High end blade irons are way less forgiving to hit that some thing with a cavity back that's deigned for amateurs. In this case having the best clubs designed for a pro would actually be detrimental to your game.

 

[huntersmith]

I find 10x the power I use for 300 yards on my VX3 3.5 by 10 BC. I had a 6-24 before way to much.

I find this discussion quite interesting mainly because I'm just getting into the precision game. I have just purchased a savage 12 F-class in 6.5x284 and am looking for a scope right now. I am having a hard time deciding what to buy for a couple of reasons. I will mainly be shooting at my home range which only goes out to 300m, I'm sure that a 6x24 0r an 8x32 Sightron will be more than adequate for my needs. However I find myself looking at high end Nightforce. My question is "is there such a thing as too much scope for the gun it's going on?" Should I buy a high end scope that exceeds my needs simply because I can afford it or stick with something a little more suited to the rifle and the shooting I will be doing with it?

 

[Magellann]

I buy the best I can afford, and strive to become proficient with it.

 

[Magellann]

The best thing about owning top of the line firearms and optics is you can't blame poor shooting on them. If you have the money buy the best .

Plus good quality stuff always just works better.

 

[SoBored]

I find this discussion quite interesting mainly because I'm just getting into the precision game. I have just purchased a savage 12 F-class in 6.5x284 and am looking for a scope right now. I am having a hard time deciding what to buy for a couple of reasons. I will mainly be shooting at my home range which only goes out to 300m, I'm sure that a 6x24 0r an 8x32 Sightron will be more than adequate for my needs. However I find myself looking at high end Nightforce. My question is "is there such a thing as too much scope for the gun it's going on?" Should I buy a high end scope that exceeds my needs simply because I can afford it or stick with something a little more suited to the rifle and the shooting I will be doing with it?

After reading this thread, I'm saving for a Sightron with no second thoughts.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1013405-1000-yard-shooting-scope