Pump action Black rifle...?

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tikka7mm-08

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Ok, the title sounds as silly as bringing back the 2 dollar bill, but hear me out.
Today me and a buddy were talking about magazine restrictions and other illogical gun laws that exist in Canada. As the conversation went on i began thinking about some of those guys who converted their m1 carbines into pump action rifles. I thought "why doesn't an arms manufacturer make an AR style rifle with the gas system being replaced with a pump action system?" this way, (up here in canada at least) we could have full sized magazines ship with the rifle, and if it took AR mags we could than have 30 round AR mags... and in turn use them for restricted AR's or other semi autos, similar to how the keltec sub-2k can use Glock mags even though its non restricted. this is just a thought, but is it realistic? especially with "california gun laws" and more states getting restrictive on semi auto's, could we see more "tactical" pump action .223's? And if the logic applies to this as it does with certain lever actions, and shotguns, couldn't we get shorter barrels as well and still be non restricted?

this was just a passing thought, but the more i think about it, the more it almost makes sense giver our current political climate?
any thoughts, comments, or queries would be greatly appreciated :)
 
Tiny Tim said:
Dlask built a pump action AR, was deemend a variant.
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Good point, but you could still get extended mags for it legally, in theory?

Also what if some company were to just make a pump action black rifle, maybe not an AR, but something tailored towards the black rifle market and accepts AR mags?
 
tikka7mm-08 said:
Good point, but you could still get extended mags for it legally, in theory?

Also what if some company were to just make a pump action black rifle, maybe not an AR, but something tailored towards the black rifle market and accepts AR mags?
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The AR mags would still be restricted to 5 rounds unless you used LAR15 mags. As jusdivinum stated the Remington 7615 is a good example. Even though it's a pump action non restricted, the mags are limited to 5 rounds.
 
jusdivinum said:
Already done - Remington 7615p
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i had never heard of that rifle until now, but it looks cool as hell and i will probably add that to my "to buy" list, thanks :) however when i googled it this link came up from the RCMP which mentioned the 7615p by name.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/bus-ent/20110323-72-eng.htm

This bulletin apparently unhinges my theory of using AR mags in this "pump action black rifle" idea of mine, so what if a manufacturer were to just make a proprietary 20 round magazine for the rifle, that plus a shorter than normal barrel would still be an attractive piece? and it would still be legal and "mostly" safe from libs, or NDPer's? wouldn't it, or am i grasping at straws here?
 
tikka7mm-08 said:
Good point, but you could still get extended mags for it legally, in theory?

Also what if some company were to just make a pump action black rifle, maybe not an AR, but something tailored towards the black rifle market and accepts AR mags?
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I would think it would go the way of the Mossberg MVP. Advertised and designed for using AR magazines, ergo any magazines for it are for the AR and have restrictions as such.

Now, if you wanted to find a pump action that works with AICS mags, that is probably your best value choice. Lots of 10 round mags in polymer or steel, and you could even make an AICS drum magazine and it would be legal

Or just go all out and make an adapter to use other mags in your AR.
 
IIRC there were some 7615s shipped to Canada and were sold with 10 round mags through one of the site sponsors. Perfectly legal from what I remember because they weren't AR15 mags. This is around 2009 I think. Several of the members here, including a police officer got them with the 10 rounders.

I was going to get one but I needed something heavier for deer so I got a 7600 Police in .308. Came standard with a 16 inch barrel. I threw on a Mesa Tactical stock adapter and a folding stock mechanism. Fit perfectly in the front box of my quad.





I had a couple of Eagle 10 round plastic mags for it but they were crap. Later I got a couple of Triple K metal 10 rounders and they worked fine. It was a sweet little rifle except for the fore end. I converted it back to original to give to my son before I figured out what to do about the fore end.
 
tikka7mm-08 said:
i had never heard of that rifle until now, but it looks cool as hell and i will probably add that to my "to buy" list, thanks :) however when i googled it this link came up from the RCMP which mentioned the 7615p by name.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/bus-ent/20110323-72-eng.htm

This bulletin apparently unhinges my theory of using AR mags in this "pump action black rifle" idea of mine, so what if a manufacturer were to just make a proprietary 20 round magazine for the rifle, that plus a shorter than normal barrel would still be an attractive piece? and it would still be legal and "mostly" safe from libs, or NDPer's? wouldn't it, or am i grasping at straws here?
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The short answer is you're grasping at straws.

Long answer is that any manufacturer that took up the cause would face tooling fees, design fees, R&D, materials, etc, and then the rifle would have to be submitted for classification to the RCMP firearms lab. If the magazine were STANAG compliant (AR mag) then the magazine would be deemed as designed for semi auto. If the whole idea were hinged on the chance to use poorly written laws in the favor of the manufacturer and have full capacity magazines (that happen to fit STANAG compliant rifles) the the manufacturer would be out hundreds of thousands for nothing. The entire idea hinges on the classification of the firearms lab.

Simply put, the Canadian market doesn't absorb enough rifles to support such a venture based off of getting a full capacity magazine. Even if it did work out the manufacturer would likely sell more mags than rifles, which would eventually get their investment back. However at the same time once the firearms lab figured out their mistake it would be as simple as labeling the mag as "dual use" and it would become a prohibited device unless pinned to 5 rounds.
 
loki_81 said:
The short answer is you're grasping at straws.

Long answer is that any manufacturer that took up the cause would face tooling fees, design fees, R&D, materials, etc, and then the rifle would have to be submitted for classification to the RCMP firearms lab. If the magazine were STANAG compliant (AR mag) then the magazine would be deemed as designed for semi auto. If the whole idea were hinged on the chance to use poorly written laws in the favor of the manufacturer and have full capacity magazines (that happen to fit STANAG compliant rifles) the the manufacturer would be out hundreds of thousands for nothing. The entire idea hinges on the classification of the firearms lab.

Simply put, the Canadian market doesn't absorb enough rifles to support such a venture based off of getting a full capacity magazine. Even if it did work out the manufacturer would likely sell more mags than rifles, which would eventually get their investment back. However at the same time once the firearms lab figured out their mistake it would be as simple as labeling the mag as "dual use" and it would become a prohibited device unless pinned to 5 rounds.[/QUOTE

Damn loki, i hate when my self appointed grande ideas get quashed with logic and realities haha
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Not mine , so don't ask. Surefire 60rd mag was a nice touch, though.lol

kisom_remington_7615_02_1000px_zps3489ebcf.jpg
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Turf said:
The AR mags would still be restricted to 5 rounds unless you used LAR15 mags. As jusdivinum stated the Remington 7615 is a good example. Even though it's a pump action non restricted, the mags are limited to 5 rounds.
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Local place here had some that came with 10 round mags.
 
Yea, fun rifles. One thing I would change though, is having the mag release on the left, the mag release on the right hand side to too far forward. Having it on the left would allow you leave your right hand in position and do a magazine change with your left like on a jr carbine.
Not a big deal, just a little quirk. I'm sure lefties like it where it currently is.
 
loki_81 said:
The short answer is you're grasping at straws.

Long answer is that any manufacturer that took up the cause would face tooling fees, design fees, R&D, materials, etc, and then the rifle would have to be submitted for classification to the RCMP firearms lab. If the magazine were STANAG compliant (AR mag) then the magazine would be deemed as designed for semi auto. If the whole idea were hinged on the chance to use poorly written laws in the favor of the manufacturer and have full capacity magazines (that happen to fit STANAG compliant rifles) the the manufacturer would be out hundreds of thousands for nothing. The entire idea hinges on the classification of the firearms lab.

Simply put, the Canadian market doesn't absorb enough rifles to support such a venture based off of getting a full capacity magazine. Even if it did work out the manufacturer would likely sell more mags than rifles, which would eventually get their investment back. However at the same time once the firearms lab figured out their mistake it would be as simple as labeling the mag as "dual use" and it would become a prohibited device unless pinned to 5 rounds.
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Dlask arms already did the above, their pump action AR was deemed restricted and called a variant, even though upper and lower are not interchangeable with a regular AR.
 
Greenhorse six said:
It looks to be basically an AR mag release,...I wonder if a ambi AR mag release would work?
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No, I was thinking the same, but the unseen portion is different. Not sure why no one has made one, the rifle seems to be popular in aussieland. They created some other mods for them.
 
Brian46 said:
Dlask arms already did the above, their pump action AR was deemed restricted and called a variant, even though upper and lower are not interchangeable with a regular AR.
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I'm aware, thank you ;). I was just giving the OP an explanation as to why rather than the typical "already been tried" reply.
 
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