Scope won't center on bore sighter... WTF??

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AndrewNS

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Hey guys,

I have a new scope (new to me, purchased from a fellow nutter) that I have been trying to get mounted for weeks on one of my rifles and I am just beyond frustrated with it. I have tried it on 3 different rifles, with 6 different sets of ringe and various bases, and I just simply can not get this damn thing to center on the target in my bore sighter.

I have never had this issue before, I mount all my own scopes and they always hit on target within inches of the bull when I bore sight them, so it isn't my bore sighter...

The scope is a Bushnell Elite 4200, 8-32 x 40.

I currently have it sitting in a set of Burris Signature ZEE rings which are mounted on Burris bases on a Savage Model 12.

When I try to sight it, the extent of the scopes adjustment will only bring it to about 8" to the right of the center of the target. Elevation is no issue, it will adjust well above and below the center.

Is it possible that the scopes tube is bent? That seems to be the only plausible explanation to me...
 
The way that I check is to click the traverse all the way one way and count the clicks to go all the way in the other direction. Just for example, let's say you have 50 clicks of adjustment overall. I then centre the traverse at the midpoint (25 clicks). If I'm way off from centre, I know it's the scope rail that's out of true. I buy the Millet rings since they have the traverse adjustment built in. Therefore, I do my coarse adjustment with the rings, lock them down, and then use the bore sighter for the final adjustment. If your scope is pooched (let's say the internals are trashed), Bushnell has an unlimited lifetime warranty. You can send it to them and they'll replace it. Lots of luck and let me know how you make out.
 
Can you use the zee ring inserts to correct the issue? I've not used them before so I'm not sure exactly how they work. How about windage adjustable rings? If the scope tube is bent you should be able to see it. Is the scope tube sitting correctly in the rings? If the scope is bent you'd likely notice it when placed in a set of rings.
 
LawrenceN said:
The way that I check is to click the traverse all the way one way and count the clicks to go all the way in the other direction. Just for example, let's say you have 50 clicks of adjustment overall. I then centre the traverse at the midpoint (25 clicks). If I'm way off from centre, I know it's the scope rail that's out of true. I buy the Millet rings since they have the traverse adjustment built in. Therefore, I do my coarse adjustment with the rings, lock them down, and then use the bore sighter for the final adjustment. If your scope is pooched (let's say the internals are trashed), Bushnell has an unlimited lifetime warranty. You can send it to them and they'll replace it. Lots of luck and let me know how you make out.
Click to expand...

That is actually exactly what I did this morning with this scope, perfectly centered in it's adjustment, it is aiming around 26" to the right. The extent of it's adjustment from there will bring it to 8" right, but it just simply will not reach center.

The bases have no play in them at all, I can't imagine that they are the issue... With the round top receiver that the Savage Model 12 has, once you tighten down the screws in the bases they can only sit in one place, which should be perfectly centered. I have also tried to mount this scope on a Remington Model Seven with the exact same results...

Is it possible that this is a problem with the internals of the scope, or is it more likely that the tube is bent a little? Is it even possible that the tube would be bent without the internals being damaged?
 
1ShotKing said:
Can you use the zee ring inserts to correct the issue? I've not used them before so I'm not sure exactly how they work. How about windage adjustable rings? If the scope tube is bent you should be able to see it. Is the scope tube sitting correctly in the rings? If the scope is bent you'd likely notice it when placed in a set of rings.
Click to expand...


I actually don't have any of the adjustment inserts for the ZEE rings, only the zero inserts... I would imagine that they could work to bring it back over, but if the tube IS bent, will it ever function properly?

When the scope is set in the rings it appears that the back of it is fairly well aligned, but the front appears to be pointing off to the right ever so slightly.
 
If the receiver scope base holes are not perfectly aligned with the bore, this can happen. It's also possible that the barrel and receiver are not perfectly aligned. Try looking down along the top of the scope from the rear, raising your head until the tip of the barrel becomes visible. I'll bet that the two are pointing in different directions. If the misalignment is too severe, the scope's internal adjustments won't be able to get you on target, and even if they do you will be looking through the edges of the scope rather than the center. You lose a lot of optical quality that way.

Assuming that your scope is good (does it work properly on other rifles?) you might try the offset Pos-align inserts available for the Burris rings to align the scope. I assume you have already confirmed that the inserts you have now are the zero (non-offset) ones?

Edited to add: Sorry for repeating all that stuff...a lot happens when you type slowly! :) Do you have another gun to throw that scope onto, just to test it out? If you replace the ZEE rings with some windage adjustable ones, you'll probably to need to lap them to prevent scope damage after using the adjustment to get them straight.
 
jjohnwm said:
If the receiver scope base holes are not perfectly aligned with the bore, this can happen. It's also possible that the barrel and receiver are not perfectly aligned. Try looking down along the top of the scope from the rear, raising your head until the tip of the barrel becomes visible. I'll bet that the two are pointing in different directions. If the misalignment is too severe, the scope's internal adjustments won't be able to get you on target, and even if they do you will be looking through the edges of the scope rather than the center. You lose a lot of optical quality that way.

Assuming that your scope is good (does it work properly on other rifles?) you might try the offset Pos-align inserts available for the Burris rings to align the scope. I assume you have already confirmed that the inserts you have now are the zero (non-offset) ones?
Click to expand...

I tried this, and the scope is pointing off to the right of the barrel, but it is the EXACT SAME on 2 different rifles.

I also mounted different scopes on the rings and bases of both rifles with no issues what so ever.

I have confirmed that the inserts that I have are the zero ones, they are also the only ones that I have.
 
If this only happened on one rifle I would suggest the mounting holes on the rifles receiver is misaligned. But if it happens on two different rifles withy the same results it is less likely to be the rifles fault. Can you do a tracking test with the scope mounted on the rifle with the bore sighter? See if the scope tracks properly as you make adjustments, if this shows okay you might want to look at the rings...maybe they are bent? Quite the conundrum! Good luck.
 
Crashman said:
If this only happened on one rifle I would suggest the mounting holes on the rifles receiver is misaligned. But if it happens on two different rifles withy the same results it is less likely to be the rifles fault. Can you do a tracking test with the scope mounted on the rifle with the bore sighter? See if the scope tracks properly as you make adjustments, if this shows okay you might want to look at the rings...maybe they are bent? Quite the conundrum! Good luck.
Click to expand...

It is definately happening on more than one rifle with the exact same results, off to the right too far to adjust back.

I have watched the sights adjust with the bore sighter in, and they seem to move properly when adjusted. I have also tried with different rings, not just the ZEE rings, and still have the same results.
 
Maybe fire off a PM to the fellow Nutter that sold you the scope and ask if he was having the same problem.
 
The scope likely isn't bent...if anything there could be some internal misalignment. Have you actually shot it on a rifle to confirm what you are seeing in the boresighter? Not all bore sighters are accurate. I'd shoot it and see what it's actually doing...it could be your boresighter that's faulty.
 
Yeah, this is getting scary. It does sound like it's the scope at fault in this case. When you drop the scope into the ring bottoms, does it go in smoothly and evenly, or does it feel/look like it needs a "nudge" at one end or the other to fit into the rings? Kinda grasping at straws here. If worse comes to worst, Bushnell has a lifetime warranty and gives good service, but they're slow unless dealing in person at the Markham warranty depot.
 
if the front of the scope looks to be pointing off to the right slightly ,then the mounts arent aligned? Possible that the holes for front vs rear bases werent drilled correctly. Easiest fix is get a set of the burris inserts for the zee rings, otherwise possibly go see a local smith to see if he can help you out. Maybe get a 1pc rail thats non drilled and get him to drill it for the hole alignment you have?

Lots of experienced guys as well as smiths on here that can give you the correct answers.
 
hawk-i said:
Maybe fire off a PM to the fellow Nutter that sold you the scope and ask if he was having the same problem.
Click to expand...

Did this also this morning. He was quick to reply, which was great. He said that he had it mounted with Sako Optilock rings, so the rings had windage adjustment built in. He also purchased the scope new and has no knowledge of anything happening that could have resulted in the tube being bent.

My last resort is to mount this scope on a rifle other than the one that it was intended to go on, which sucks because that leaves me without a scope for one of my rifles so I have to buy another new scope to put on it... The only reason that it will work on one of my rifles is that I have a Leupold STD one piece base and rings on it, meaning that it has windage adjustment built into the base.
 
sheephunter said:
The scope likely isn't bent...if anything there could be some internal misalignment. Have you actually shot it on a rifle to confirm what you are seeing in the boresighter? Not all bore sighters are accurate. I'd shoot it and see what it's actually doing...it could be your boresighter that's faulty.
Click to expand...

I'm leaning toward the bent tube thing not being the case, I would think that if the tube was bent, there would be some type of sign on the scope itself that it was abused in some way but this scope is spotless. No chipped paint, no signs of wear...

I also can't imagine that 2 different rifles both have mis-aligned holes.

Therefore, I would have to agree that it could be an internals issue with the scope.

I haven't managed to get out to shoot it yet, I am hoping to be able to do that tomorrow.
 
jjohnwm said:
Yeah, this is getting scary. It does sound like it's the scope at fault in this case. When you drop the scope into the ring bottoms, does it go in smoothly and evenly, or does it feel/look like it needs a "nudge" at one end or the other to fit into the rings? Kinda grasping at straws here. If worse comes to worst, Bushnell has a lifetime warranty and gives good service, but they're slow unless dealing in person at the Markham warranty depot.
Click to expand...

It drops in nice and smooth and even, doesn't appear to be off in the rings at all. Once the rings are tightened down, they appear to be sitting square and true on the scope.

I REALLY don't want to have to send it in for warranty work, I'm very impatient and the waiting would kill me...
 
I don't know what type of bore sighter you use but my bushnell that I lent to a friend had the grid at the front end move. The fix was easy just loosen the end piece and reposition and retighten.
 
oldfart said:
I don't know what type of bore sighter you use but my bushnell that I lent to a friend had the grid at the front end move. The fix was easy just loosen the end piece and reposition and retighten.
Click to expand...

It is a Cabela's bore sighter. I just went and checked, the grid doesn't move. I took the end cap off and it is very securely screwed into place.

I have used this same boresighter to sight all of my scopes and haven't had any issues yet.
 
those scopes are really loooong............to confirm if the scope tube is bent or not turn the scope 90 degrees in your rings and snug it back up, then check again with your bore sighter. Your windage adjustment will now be elevation and the elevation adjustment will be windage.....If there is a significant change in your findings then there is a good chance the tube is bent, if there is no change in your findings then it is likely a internal issue and you should pursue warranty work
 
Okay, how about this...check the specifications for that scope to determine what the total adjustment range is available for the windage adjustment of the crosshairs, i.e. 30MOA or whatever. Then use the windage adjustment turret to go all the way from left to right, counting the clicks and dividing by four (for 1/4MOA clocks, for example) to see if you are really getting the full range of adjustment. It might provide another piece of the puzzle. Like I said, grasping at straws.

And before relegating the scope to another rifle, why not try the off-set Pos-align inserts, or a set of windage-adjustable rings? I haven't tried the off-set inserts, but they seem to work well for others who use them. I have corrected similar problems (though not as severe as yours) with windage-adjustable rings in the past. Not STD bases...I am referring here to rings that still mount on Weaver-type bases, but have a clamping screw on each side to allow for adjustment. I hesitate to mention the Millett Angle-locs, as they are not thought of highly on CGN and they are pretty ugly...but they are inexpensive, and they work as advertised. The windage adjustment can be done at both front and rear, meaning you only need half as much at each end. If you go this way, lapping is required!
 
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