Need advice on choosing a barrel

cr5 said:
ATRS used stainless match grade blanks. DD is a chrome lined hammer forged milspec barrel with a NATO chamber. DD may be good for what it is but it won't shoot as well as a match grade barrel with a Wylde or other custom cut chamber.
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Agreed, but OP says he wants a 14.5" mid weight. This is hardly the length or profile of barrel you go with if you want maximum accuracy.
 
09outlander said:
I've finally saved enough money to order a barrel for my AR, I've already decided to go with 14.5", .223 Wylde chamber, 1:8 twist with a mid-length gas system and medium profile.

But I can't decide on a finish, should I go with just a standard SS barrel or get the nitride coating/finish. I've read that the nitride improves accuracy and longevity, is this true? And is it a noticeable difference in accuracy?

Thanks for any suggestions or opinions.
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If you're concerned about accuracy, I'd strongly suggest a longer barrel. This increases muzzle velocity and will make a noticeable difference at longer ranges. Nitriding improves barrel life, but I haven't read anything about it increasing accuracy though.
 
Ar180shooter said:
If you're concerned about accuracy, I'd strongly suggest a longer barrel. This increases muzzle velocity and will make a noticeable difference at longer ranges. Nitriding improves barrel life, but I haven't read anything about it increasing accuracy though.
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There is no correlation between barrel length and accuracy.
There are many 18" barreled .308 rifles out there that are amazingly accurate.
Muzzle velocity is another issue all together.
 
thump_rrr said:
There is no correlation between barrel length and accuracy.
There are many 18" barreled .308 rifles out there that are amazingly accurate.
Muzzle velocity is another issue all together.
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I didn't say it made it more accurate. I said the increased muzzle velocity makes a difference at longer ranges. As someone who shoots Service Rifle competitions (out to 500 yards), I know from personal experience that 5-6" of extra barrel length make a big difference. This is due to increased muzzle velocity giving the bullet a flatter trajectory and decreasing the effect of wind, etc., not because it makes the rifle inherently more accurate.
 
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Ar180shooter said:
I didn't say it made it more accurate. I said the increased muzzle velocity makes a difference at longer ranges. As someone who shoots Service Rifle competitions (out to 500 yards), I know from personal experience that 5-6" of extra barrel length make a big difference. This is due to increased muzzle velocity giving the bullet a flatter trajectory and decreasing the effect of wind, etc., not because it makes the rifle inherently more accurate.
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The OP is clear that he wants a 14.5" medium contour SS barrel with a mid length gas system.
Who am I to question his decisions.
I own 1 barrel which fits the bill and it's a Noveske.
Once spring comes around I will try developing a load specifically for it but already it seems to be my most accurate barrel.
 
Thanks for the input everyone, I'm going to contact Armtac and see what the wait time is for a Noveske and if it's too long I'm going to order a barrel from ATRS.
 
thump_rrr said:
The OP is clear that he wants a 14.5" medium contour SS barrel with a mid length gas system.
Who am I to question his decisions.
I own 1 barrel which fits the bill and it's a Noveske.
Once spring comes around I will try developing a load specifically for it but already it seems to be my most accurate barrel.
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He also asked for suggestions and opinions. I was giving my opinion and suggesting a slightly longer barrel. It is also my opinion that an SS match barrel is wasted on a carbine. If you're not going to be shooting at extended ranges and are set on a 14.5" bbl, IMO it's worth the minor sacrifice in accuracy to get a chrome lined hammer forged barrel. It is cheaper and the barrel life will be longer. Spend the money you saved on ammo and a carbine course.
 
7.62mm said:
I guess what I take away from this "test"...is that it wasn't very scientific! Thanks!
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Uh, I shot several hundred rounds with each developing their optimum load.
I loaded a couple hundred rounds of each ones preferred ammo.
I shot five, five round groups with each upper, round robin style to eliminate environmental changes.
Result= dd chf 1.2" average, noveske lightweight ss 0.7" average.

I presume you own a dd barrel, hence your attitude towards my comments.
Bare in mind, this is only my example of the dd chf performance... And a 1.2" average really is quite good.
 
Actually....I don't own either barrel....I have no ruck in any of your out comes.

Also....I am not a scientist of any sort. All I have is my natural born sensibility and my desire to see fairness.

Your tests are by no means definitive......ie. where is the control group...or blind test....you tested 2 barrels, on 2 different uppers....and no equal terms......it would be impossible to extrapolate one barrel was better than the other.....but carry on and keep espousing your findings!
 
Several hundred rounds developing a load for a Carbine? Why? Anywhere that the difference in accuracy might, maybe matter, a full length rifle with a heavy match barrel would be a much better choice.
 
7.62mm said:
Your tests are by no means definitive......ie. where is the control group...or blind test....you tested 2 barrels, on 2 different uppers....and no equal terms......it would be impossible to extrapolate one barrel was better than the other.....but carry on and keep espousing your findings!
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The test was very definitive for me.
My noveske barrelled upper provided better accuracy. Therefore of the two barrels I tested, I can definitively say the noveske was better.
The uppers were otherwise identical.
This of course is just my datapoint, I suggest starting some noveske vs dd barrel threads on the hide, arfcom, or m4carbine.


Gunnerlove said:
Several hundred rounds developing a load for a Carbine? Why? Anywhere that the difference in accuracy might, maybe matter, a full length rifle with a heavy match barrel would be a much better choice.
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I reload for my carbines. Why not roll up the load that they like the most ?
Couple hundred rounds is a drop in the ocean...

I prefer mid length, "recce" style rifles. Light weight, but still with the onus on accuracy. Just like to extract everything I can from them.
 
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I don't own a DD rifle but I do have Noveske with a 16" Stainless barrel and can attest to it's accuracy, it is a sub moa rifle all day long with reloads as long as I do my part. It is definitely more accurate then my friends m4v5.
 
7.62mm said:
Actually....I don't own either barrel....I have no ruck in any of your out comes.

Also....I am not a scientist of any sort. All I have is my natural born sensibility and my desire to see fairness.

Your tests are by no means definitive......ie. where is the control group...or blind test....you tested 2 barrels, on 2 different uppers....and no equal terms......it would be impossible to extrapolate one barrel was better than the other.....but carry on and keep espousing your findings!
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Here is a 2008 interview with John Noveske.
http://www.defensereview.com/noveske-rifleworks-n4-light-recce-carbine-john-noveske-interview-part-one/
In the article he states that his clients claim that his SS barrels hold around .6 MOA while his CHF barrels are sub MOA.
Noveske maintains a uniformity of 0.0002" on his CHF barrels which is essentially match grade tolerances.

It is also important to note that he was the first to use M249 machinegun specifications for his CFH barrels.
FN USA owns the TDP for M249 barrels so they are the only ones who can manufacture them.
Even though FN manufactures barrels for several different companies in the M249 style it doesn't mean that they all have the same tolerances.
 
09outlander said:
Thanks for the input everyone, I'm going to contact Armtac and see what the wait time is for a Noveske and if it's too long I'm going to order a barrel from ATRS.
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Remember the saying, " Good Things comes To Those Who Wait", Personally I dont mind waiting for a couple of weeks if I know Im getting what I want, in this this case the best 14.5 midlenght medium contour stainless bbl.
its not only the bbl blanks but also the tooling they use to cut the bbl. that will make up for a good bbl.
 
thump_rrr said:
Here is a 2008 interview with John Noveske.
http://www.defensereview.com/noveske-rifleworks-n4-light-recce-carbine-john-noveske-interview-part-one/
In the article he states that his clients claim that his SS barrels hold around .6 MOA while his CHF barrels are sub MOA.
Noveske maintains a uniformity of 0.0002" on his CHF barrels which is essentially match grade tolerances
It is also important to note that he was the first to use M249 machinegun specifications for his CFH barrels.
FN USA owns the TDP for M249 barrels so they are the only ones who can manufacture them.
Even though FN manufactures barrels for several different companies in the M249 style it doesn't mean that they all have the same tolerances.
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And Noveske uses its own tooling .
 
ffgats said:
Remember the saying, " Good Things comes To Those Who Wait", Personally I dont mind waiting for a couple of weeks if I know Im getting what I want, in this this case the best 14.5 midlenght medium contour stainless bbl.
its not only the bbl blanks but also the tooling they use to cut the bbl. that will make up for a good bbl.
Click to expand...

I do see that Armtac has a 16" Recon barrel in stock, hhmmmm
 
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