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Even for the Nationals you usually can request to be squadded with your buddies. I've shot lots of L3 matches and it is rather unusual not be able to select squad.
 
Though no squading preferences isn't the end of the world and nice to meet new people, etc.... but sometimes it takes a while to warm up to others on your squad, if strangers... then get friendlier later.... which is good, but better if at least have one buddy on your squad.....anyways, I'm sure you know what I mean, and I'm rambling on a bit....
It's usually allowed and if groups send in their forms together, don't see why it shouldn't be accomodated ? Kinda not cool not to allow....

Or is it due to lack of dedicated RO and CRO, so no cheating can happen ? if buddies on same squad (being RO's) are asked to RO while also shooters on squad. Though most are honest, I've seen cheating happen in this set up and understand why they'll want to separate friends.

So is there lack of dedicated RO & CRO's for this match ? If so, put out an email blast for help. I'm sure you'll get great response.
I may be able to come early and RO a day (depending on work...and who I carpool with....not trying to weasel out, just saying).

Yes, I don't think it was allowed at Nationals either, but two wrongs don't make a right... and this is lower shooter count to organize, and.. I say and, since the slots will be filled up by the end of this month or Feb., lots of time to work things out....
 
I don't think the issue with squadding is about not being able to shoot with your buddies, it's about carpooling and saving money. If people are coming from across the country to shoot this they want to be able to setup their rides so they can carpool. Sure they want to shoot together, as that would mean they can carpool. But random squadding really makes no sense to me either. With all the online options for doing this automatically or allowing the shooters to do it, I don't see the point behind it.
 
Carpooling won't be an issue because everyone is shooting the same schedule. The point to busting groups is to try and reduce cheating. That's only rational behind it.
102 spots left for the weekend dates.
 
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TrevorF said:
The point to busting groups is to try and reduce cheating. That's only rational behind it.
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Which is even more disturbing...

If there is a problem with cheating..............DEAL WITH THE CHEATERS!!!

This is yet another case of the actions of a (hopefully) small group of trouble makers causing problems for the rest of the good people. That is patently wrong.

That said.............if the host club were to imbed local ROs into groups it might be a workable solution
 
There must be a real problem with cheating back there if this needs to be done. I can think of a few times in 13 years of shooting that I've ever thought someone might be trying to cheat.
 
We received complaints from the shooters who attend that they see it. The same shooters made the suggestion that busting the groups would help.
Here's what I've seen, friends shooting together giving an A hit instead of a reshoot when they realized they were missing a hit on the score sheet. Another time giving a reshoot because the shooter claimed that a target was patched even though no one on the squad said they patched. That was just one stage on one day. You can't tell me that it's not going on all throughout the match and not just our match.
So here's what it boils down to, don't bust the groups and shooter ##### because they see people cheeting. Bust the groups and shooter #####.
Like I said, if you have a squading request send it to the match director. No one is going to solve anything here on CGN. We're a small club trying to put on a good match and we know we're not going to make everyone happy.
 
TrevorF said:
We received complaints from the shooters who attend that they see it.
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And? So? Why does that matter? Was the CRO or RO informed? Was action taken? If not then it is moot, It is hearsay and should not matter. Well until the MDs start to listen to that hearsay and act upon it.


TrevorF said:
The same shooters made the suggestion that busting the groups would help.
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Again.......so? Now you have shooters suggesting that the idea is as-sine.

TrevorF said:
Here's what I've seen, friends shooting together giving an A hit instead of a reshoot when they realized they were missing a hit on the score sheet.
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And what happened when you complained? If you did not..............then it did not happen.

TrevorF said:
Another time giving a reshoot because the shooter claimed that a target was patched even though no one on the squad said they patched.
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The rules actually cover the patching problem quite nicely. So you are saying that the RO was not following the rule? Again...........did you complain to the CRO or RM or MD? If not.......why not?

TrevorF said:
You can't tell me that it's not going on all throughout the match and not just our match.
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I can and will emphatically say that is has never happened on any squad I have been involved with.


TrevorF said:
So here's what it boils down to, don't bust the groups and shooter ##### because they see people cheeting.
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And if people cheat...........there are rules in place to deal with them. Use those rules.

TrevorF said:
Bust the groups and shooter #####.
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Absolutely because it is being done without proper consideration. It is patently reactionary, never a good way to decide things.

TrevorF said:
Like I said, if you have a squading request send it to the match director
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that was completed with the application on the assumption that as with all other LVIII matches I have been involved with it would be part of the system.
It is only now that the applications have been sent and payment made that the problem has reared its head hence the discord.
If it had been announced early on it would be a factor in deciding whether or not one might attend.

TrevorF said:
No one is going to solve anything here on CGN.
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Ok I can see there.........where do you want to solve it?

TrevorF said:
We're a small club trying to put on a good match and we know we're not going to make everyone happy.
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And some of us who have run larger matches are here to help. In this case help is pointing out that your solution is not correct.
 
I am unsure how you guys run your squads back there, but why not use the split work/shoot day so that people aren't ROing their buddies? That would solve your problem if you can't get dedicated ROs to man the stages.
 
Restigouche just happened to run the largest Nationals to date... And how many very successful Summer Slams? So I think they know how to run a match.

So what is next topic up for discussion? Crappy cell service at the range?

As usual looking forward to the match and thanks to the Restigouche crew for putting this on.
 
Newbrunny said:
Restigouche just happened to run the largest Nationals to date... And how many very successful Summer Slams? So I think they know how to run a match...
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Actually, Summer Slam crew always just build stages (and that they do really well!) and then let competitors run the match themselves. Luckily RD didn't allow that for the Nationals and match had dedicated ROs...

But now taking away time with their buddies from all competitors is a serious reason to think about going.

It somewhat puzzle me why NB section can't find 10..15 dedicated stage ROs for two days (one for each stage) or maybe use Slavex's suggestion to have work slots and run match in 2 days match like the Natinals.
 
euxx said:
Actually, Summer Slam crew always just build stages (and that they do really well!) and then let competitors run the match themselves. Luckily RD didn't allow that for the Nationals and match had dedicated ROs...

But now taking away time with their buddies from all competitors is a serious reason to think about going.

It somewhat puzzle me why NB section can't find 10..15 dedicated stage ROs for two days (one for each stage) or maybe use Slavex's suggestion to have work slots and run match in 2 days match like the Natinals.
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ontario has about 1000-1200 members?...NB has roughly 120-140 members...so I think we all would like dedicated RO's,...but with those numbers it is not likely. I don't mind RO'ing, but it is a PITA sometimes...
 
I have never managed a big match like that, but let me throw an idea.
Beside of summer slam, I went to the summer fun in kingston also. I think they have a kind of RO/CRO program.
I'm not sure exactly what is this program, but for example, if that program can pay the match fee, the 2 extra night at the hotel, and a special table price for the worker, I'm sure that you will be able to find people to RO/CRO the match from QC, ON, NS. For example, in our carpool, we there is 2 certified Range master, and 2 RO. I'm pretty sure (I did not ask them) that they will be open to work at the match if that kind of program exist.... Mybe ask Bernard DeGagne for more detail...
 
euxx said:
Actually, the Summer Slam crew has always just built stages (and that they do that really well!) and then let competitors run the match themselves. Luckily the RD didn't allow that for the Nationals and match had dedicated ROs...

But now, taking away time with their buddies from all competitors is a serious reason to rethink about going.

It somewhat puzzle me why NB section can't find 10..15 dedicated stage ROs for two days (one for each stage) or maybe use Slavex's suggestion to have work slots and run match in 2 days match like the Natinals.
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I have corrected your post.
 
maurice said:
ontario has about 1000-1200 members?...NB has roughly 120-140 members...so I think we all would like dedicated RO's,...but with those numbers it is not likely. I don't mind RO'ing, but it is a PITA sometimes...
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10..15 people out of 120-140 section members + some out of province ROs - seem doable and worth to try.
 
Interesting debate , but it would appear that what Trevor is saying is that you can make a squadding request to the match director , but there is no promises being made of who will be in your squad . The reason given for this is that there has been complaints of cheating in the past from other shooters ; so squad busting was required to keep everything fair which seems reasonable . It would appear that it may be possiable to have some shooters on your squad who are friends , but the whole squad " cannot be close friends " . At the end of the day , there is an element of competition with IPSC , and if they allow cheating to go on unchecked.....then it defeats the whole purpose for the shoot .
 
Gunexpert007 said:
Interesting debate , but it would appear that what Trevor is saying is that you can make a squadding request to the match director , but there is no promises being made of who will be in your squad . The reason given for this is that there has been complaints of cheating in the past from other shooters ; so squad busting was required to keep everything fair which seems reasonable .
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But it is not! Personally I really don't want to land into the squad of the people known for not patching or resetting stages. Why would I be doing all the work for them? How MD is planning to address that issue, which in fact is more severe than issue with presumed cheating...

Gunexpert007 said:
It would appear that it may be possiable to have some shooters on your squad who are friends , but the whole squad " cannot be close friends " . At the end of the day , there is an element of competition with IPSC , and if they allow cheating to go on unchecked.....then it defeats the whole purpose for the shoot .
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As Storm said, if cheating is not dealt with at the match it didn't happen. It is covered well in the rule book. You see it, report up to the chain, up to filling up 3rd party arb. But it has to happen at the match.
 
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