What is this gun?
- Thread starter Slowbalt
- Start date
deckerhead
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes
Belgian Bulldog...
I wasn't so enamored with it. I thought it a bit pricey even considering the extras. 380 revolver is a bit challenging to reload for if accurate results are your goal. Given the reloaded brass included I would guess that the seller met with limited success in their efforts. The good news is that it is a solid frame design. The new owner should slug the barrel and compare that with the projectiles provided. I will hazard a guess that the lead included may not be satisfactory. If it is too big then that is an easy fix. Just size it down to the appropriate diameter. If they are too small then you may want to consider a custom mold. Accurate Molds can solve that for you.
While you are at it, the new owner should examine the frame and barrel for stress, warp or any inconsistencies in rifling (bulge,wear, pitting etc). Lockup and indexing on all cylinders is critical too.
If your reloaded brass doesn't fit perfectly in the cylinder then you may want to consider a different set of dies (assuming you have maxed out adjustments). CH4D makes dies specific to 380 Revolver. They may (or may not) be an improvement. There is lots of variation in the 38 category. Once again slugging the barrel will give you a clue. Knowing if you need a heeled bullet or not is important too
When you get them shooting nice it is a very satisfying experience.
Last edited:
Inspect the gun for any problems. or have a gunsmith inspect it (better). This would be a good time to check the piece for appropriate Belgian proof marks that verify it as an antique.
Disassemble all reloaded ammo included.
Slug the barrel and compare the diameter of the slug to the projectiles provided. Try to determine if the revolver was designed for a heeled bullet or not. (This is a lesson in itself)
If the supplied projectiles are within tolerance then reload with black powder first. I would use FFFG (Black Powder, the real thing, not a substitute) and fill the case so that it would be full but uncompressed with the projectile seated. This is basically the min load for black powder. There should never be an air gap with BP. You can use filler if you feel the need to download further. Sometimes with larger calibers this is a valid consideration. (450 Adams for example)
See how the BP shoots first. If I was happy with this I may work up a Trail Boss load next. Don't be surprised if the BP is accurate and smokeless isn't. It may be surprising but sometimes BP works best in these antiques that were designed for it.
Without holding the gun in my hands it is difficult to judge the quality of the metal. Belgian guns are all over the map when it comes to metal quality. Some are as fine as the best French revolvers of the period. Others look nice but are mediocre. Some look nice but are crap. Some look like crap and are so. The quality of the metal is your first clue as to the upper limit you might strive for in your reloads. It is your hands / body that you are putting at risk when you pull the trigger. If you don't have the utmost confidence in the integrity of the piece then your reloads should correspond accordingly. This is another reason to start with a load that is similar to what it was designed for, ie. Black Powder. Heck. the gun is 100+ years old. Even Black Powder might be a bit much for it. You have to use your eyes and ears to observe and look for signs of over-pressure as you work out the details of your loads.
One thing to remember is that it is an antique and it will wear much more rapidly than anything modern. Both by your handling and by use. You are now a custodian of a piece of history. It is your responsibility to preserve this for future generations. That being said I believe that objects need to be used to be experienced and live. I don't believe in show cars that are never driven or revolvers that never go bang.
(one caveat... Sometimes a gun is so old or so delicate that even one shot will damage it beyond repair. The only place for something like that is a museum.)
Last edited:
Wow that's good info! Sort of scary, but good info nonetheless. Any pointers for specific load data? My google-fu seems weak with this one, and I am not one to hasard a guess with reloading without some solid base to build on.
Edit : Reread and found ''load'' for black powder. How about smokeless? I especially like trailboss for low power stuff. Would their ''full uncompressed case is a max load'' still fit in with such an old lady?
Edit 2: Here is a rundown of the powders I've got on hand, are there any that would be more suitable?
Win231
Unique
Trailboss
Titegroup
Bullseye
I am reading that the lower loads for 38sw might be fine, any truth to this? I really do not want to be the guinea pig here.
Edit : Reread and found ''load'' for black powder. How about smokeless? I especially like trailboss for low power stuff. Would their ''full uncompressed case is a max load'' still fit in with such an old lady?
Edit 2: Here is a rundown of the powders I've got on hand, are there any that would be more suitable?
Win231
Unique
Trailboss
Titegroup
Bullseye
I am reading that the lower loads for 38sw might be fine, any truth to this? I really do not want to be the guinea pig here.
Last edited:
Ok, Repeat after me. There is no load data for this gun and you ARE the guinea pig here.
You have to figure it out for yourself but that is half the fun! You might check out loads for 38S&W or 380 Revolver but to be honest they may or may not be what you have. You just don't know and quite frankly there are so many variations on 380 revolver that any load data you might find is meaningless anyway.
The logical way to approach this so that you have the best chance at keeping your digits is to try to duplicate the cartridge that the gun was originally designed for. That means you start with Black Powder and forget about smokeless for now. The beauty about BP is that you don't need load data to know what the minimum load is. Also, by starting with BP you will give yourself the chance to discover if the gun prefers that or not. One of the first things you have to figure out is what are the proper brass dimensions? This is important as it will directly affect how much BP is used.
I have 3 antiques in 38cal. I now have 2 of them shooting nicely. The third has been very challenging and I believe it requires a hollow based bullet. I haven't found a mold for this yet. All 3 cartridges are very different. Of the 2 that shoot nice, one likes Trailboss and one prefers BP.
BrotherRockeye
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rural Saskatchewan
looked like a RIC copy to me...but the add is gone now...
the 11th edition of Cartridges of the World has info.
it lists a .375 bullet(other sources say <> .360) and indicates 38 S&W and 38 Short Colt load data is appropriate.
this is the 38 S&W data from the same reference for the powders you have listed:
bullet............................powder..............grs...............velocity................energy....................source
148 lead.......................Bullseye............2.5.................700....................161........................Speer
158 lead......................Unique...............3.0.................700.....................172......................Speer
I would start below these and work up to them, being very sure that the bullet has cleared the barrel before touching off a follow up.
The onus is on you to determine that your iron is safe to shoot, and all the other previously stated points.
I post this strictly to give you an idea of the published data available.
I used 2gr of Green Dot in my .380 with 125gr soft cast .360 bullets.
jethunter has bullets available if it slugs in the .360 range as mine did:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/879482-Antique-Pistol-Bullets
Good luck, have fun, be safe.
the 11th edition of Cartridges of the World has info.
it lists a .375 bullet(other sources say <> .360) and indicates 38 S&W and 38 Short Colt load data is appropriate.
this is the 38 S&W data from the same reference for the powders you have listed:
bullet............................powder..............grs...............velocity................energy....................source
148 lead.......................Bullseye............2.5.................700....................161........................Speer
158 lead......................Unique...............3.0.................700.....................172......................Speer
I would start below these and work up to them, being very sure that the bullet has cleared the barrel before touching off a follow up.
The onus is on you to determine that your iron is safe to shoot, and all the other previously stated points.
I post this strictly to give you an idea of the published data available.
I used 2gr of Green Dot in my .380 with 125gr soft cast .360 bullets.
jethunter has bullets available if it slugs in the .360 range as mine did:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/879482-Antique-Pistol-Bullets
Good luck, have fun, be safe.
Last edited:
OAL for what caliber? You have to slug the bore first so that you can begin to figure out what caliber the revolver is.
A pretty good list of dimensions can be found here: http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm
Keep in mind that it could be 9mm Gasser, 9mm Belgian Nagant, 9mm Austrian Revolver etc. as well.
After you slug the bore let us know what you find.
Last edited:
^^ Good advise here. Little or no reloading data for the .380 CF or the many variants that are close to it.Slug your bore and that will give you a starting point.Examine your cylinder, Is it bored through or does it have a step in it?These guns are so old many have been re purposed or assembled from bits and pieces. Sometimes you do not know if you have a functioning handgun or not.
