Heckler & Koch P7M10 pictures

[ghostie]

A classic pistol from 1992... when pistols still came in cardboard boxes:

Pretty much the same set up as the rest of the P7's, especially the P7M13, except that the slide is taller and heavier, and the barrel of course is different (and uses standard rifling):

Is it totally massive and bulky? No, not really. At least not compared to what replaced it. Feels svelt in the hand compared to a USP:

With the generation of HK pistols that came before it, the P9S (before there was such a thing as .40S&W!)

Even the M10 is tiny compared to Steyr's 1980s era entry into the gas-delayed blowback market:

A 1992 M10, and an M13 from 10 years later. Boxes changed to plastic during this time I guess!

Feel free to add some pics of your own, since it seems that we are going to be getting some more P7's into the country!

Vids:

My girlfriend shooting this same gun. 5 rounds. I always tell her when she shoots P7's "just squeeze it" to close the slide, but I guess she has the slingshot method stuck in her mind (which also works with a P7). I think the first shot surprises her. Why? Because the break-point of the trigger is at the "front" of the range of movement, not the back like every other pistol. I've gone into this in some deatil in some of my old posts, so I won't re-hash that here. It actually works better once you get used to it, but if you are expecting the break-point to be further back, you will fire the gun before reaching it.

 

[Chuckbuster]

Quick question...did the RCMP ever issue, albeit in a very limited way, any P7s to select officers...in oh say, VIP protection, in say, 1984?

 

[tetra]

Awesome! Thanks for posting.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Very nice M10 ghostie. Some of them still come in cardboard boxes... My Les Baer did

 

[lycan]

Very nice collection.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[johnl]

Had a chance to buy a chrome version years back for $2k. The blued piece looks way better though. However they should of kept the slimmer upper and make one that works in .45acp.

 

[H.K.Glock 007]

Makes me wish I had of said yes to purchasing it.

 

[gdawg]

nice. it really looks a lot beefier than the p7 9s.

 

[Sargeant Slaughter]

Delete

 

[ghostie]

nice. it really looks a lot beefier than the p7 9s.

P9 has a very, very thin slide. It's an amazing design in its own right with the little miniature MP5 rollers, but the P7M10 is really on the opposite end of the spectrum on slide thickness (at least in terms of the "roof" of the slide).

I read that the extra beef on the top of the slide of the P7M10 threw off the handling found on the 9mm models . Is this true ? Thanks

I heard a lot of stuff like that too, on the Internet of course, before I bought mine. Very few people have any experience with these pistols (only about 2,500 were ever made, worldwide, and they now sell at prices that are well out of the reach of all but the most stubborn and determined), so that probably accounts for the validity (or lack thereof) of many of those reports.

I can say, the P7M10 is BY FAR the softest shooting .40S&W I have fired. I have the GLOCK 23 and the USP .40, and both are much snappier... way more snappy. The M10 feels more like a 9mm. The GLOCK 23 is violent by comparison (and in comparison to the GLOCK 19). I only got to shoot it really quickly, for about 30 rounds on Saturday. I will try again next weekend. I would say for now though, it feels way more like a P7M13 than any other pistol, partly for obvious reasons (the "lower" is identical), but also... something is cancelling out the extra pressure of the .40 cartridge in terms of felt recoil. It is either the mass of the slide, or the gas retarding system, or a combination of both.

Handling is a strong suit of the P7's, as is size. The weaknesses are:
(1) Cost (this is what really killed these pistols);
(2) Mag capacity;
(3) Weight;
(4) Heat (Steyr GB is the only other pistol I can think of that heats up to the point that it is noticeable);
(5) Susceptibility to (extreme) fouling (compared to something like a GLOCK. For normal range shooting this is not a problem).

Strong Points:
(1) Accuracy (only target type pistols with hair triggers are more accurate, in my experience);
(2) Control-ability/point-ability/muzzle-flip/follow-up shots;
(2) Size;
(3) Reliability (especially, again, when talking about a pre-GLOCK/GLOCK-derived world);

 

[elektrobug]

It only shipped in the paper box because the pistol with its taller slide would not fit in the universal plastic P7 box that has been used since the mid 80's.

 

[ghostie]

It only shipped in the paper box because the pistol with its taller slide would not fit in the universal plastic P7 box that has been used since the mid 80's.

That's interesting. Yah, it definitely would not fit in a plastic M13 box. So, did all the M10's that shipped out go in a cardboard box like that, with "M10" printed on it?

They only made them for 4 years right? 1991-1994? I'm curious if you ever came across any "KB's". I'm thinking that 1991's would be more "theoretical" than something a regular person could have bought. There is a picture of one on HKPro (with the serial number "012"!!!), and even a picture of a prototype KA with a slim M13-style slide (and the serial number of 005).

This one here (mine) does not have the "21-" preface that some of them do. Is there a story behind that?

Unlike many of the pistols you have sourced over the years, this one obviously went through the U.S. - with the "H.K. Inc." and "Sterling, VA" markings on it. Did you ever see one without U.S. markings? I doubt they really sold more than a handfull of them in Europe, if any, the .40 cartridge and all.

I've also read somewhere that the total production run for M10's, all years, is only about 2,500. Is that right? By comparison, what do you think the overall production numbers would be for M8's, M13's, etc.?

Lots of very specific questions.... sorry ... but if anybody will know, it'll be you.

Thanks again for selling this beauty to me. It went to a good home

 

[elektrobug]

Yes all M10 shipped in cardboard boxes. There are 3 different types, light box for nickel guns, dark box for blued guns, and another type of light box for the last few made that did not have green label. The M10 was a stop gap measure until the USP pistol that was designed around the new .40S&W cartridge came out. That is why they never bothered to mould a new plastic box for it and why it was in production for only 2 years.

Prototype and preproduction guns were KA and KB date code. Production pistols were KC and KD.

The guns sold in Europe did not have a "21-" prefix and you are correct that very few were sold there. Yours is one of those European guns and it never spent any time in USA. In the early 90's all P7s that were sold in Europe also had the "HK Inc. Sterling, VA" rollmark. HK Germany did this for a few years and stopped in the mid 90's but it it was done during the years the M10 was in production so all M10 including the European ones have the USA markings. I have only seen one M10 without "HK Inc. Sterling, VA" marking.....

Total production of M10s is around 2700 guns, one of the rarest production P7 model runs. The most common is the P7 PSP with around 82,000. P7M8s and P7M13s making up about 65,000 units in total together. P7K3 were 4500.

I knew it would have a happy home with you, enjoy it!

 

[ghostie]

My God... you are an encyclopedia on this stuff, and I mean that in the most sincere way.

Perhaps your collection retains that unrollmarked M10??? (No need to answer)

I dig the "H.K. Inc." rollmarks myself, but I know others prefer P7's without them. The "Warning: Refer to Users Manual" crap that came later, that is hideous, but the "H.K. Inc." and "Arlington/Chantilly/Sterling, VA" type marks are tasteful, and a part of H.K. history.

Wow, so more PSP's than the rest of them put together. I would assume the police contracts in Germany would account for much of that.

If you ever do get around to putting that book together, I'll be first in line to buy a copy.

 

[ghostie]

Here is a newer video of the M10, showing it being fired up close on the left side. I think my girlfriend`s technique leaves a bit to be desired here, but she is not of fan of the P7s the way I am.

A couple of screen captures of the M10 being fired. One is doubled in size.

A couple of other photos that I didn`t put in this thread earlier:

This is (L to R, top to bottom): 1980 PSP; 1992 M10; 1989 M8; 1984 M13, with the boxes for the PSP and the M10.

 

[Gundoggy]

When it first came out it was a bit of a 'dud'. People disliked it's big fat slide as it was no longer as sleek and svelte as the 9mm P7's. Wait 20 years and now it's a desired and coveted 'rare item'.

 

[gdawg]

I wonder if anyone ever made a 357 sig barrel for it. That would be sweet setup too

 

[ghostie]

Yah, it's kinda strange. The whole thing, for people who haven't shot them (which is almost everybody), is "the slide is fatter than the M8/M13, therefore it is no good". A conclusion based on pictures they saw on the Internet. I wasn't sure myself, whether it would be a shooter before I got mine. But actually, since I've been shooting this thing, I really love it. It is such a soft shooter for a .40, accurate in the extreme, and I have yet to have any hint of a malfunction. I love the look of it to. So does everybody else at the range when they see it in a human scale. It's 10 times the .40 calibre pistol you can go to a store and buy today. But people don't have them, and they are not really available from any source, so they convince themselves that there is something wrong with it.

I wonder if anyone ever made a 357 sig barrel for it. That would be sweet setup too

Given how close the M13 and M10 are, I don't think it would be that hard for a gunsmith to come up with something, but that would be butchering a classic firearm. The .357 SIG came out in 1994, which is the last year of production for the M10. If the firearms world didn't get taken over by the GLOCK, we may have seen something like this. All it really would be, I would think, would be an M13 chamber bored out to a .357 chamber, and then maybe slap an M10 slide on there if there was a concern over pressure. The rest of it would be fine I think. Just use the M10 mags, but even the M13 mags would probably work.

It's a piece of firearms history for sure, but it's firearms engineering that puts to shame the pistols of today. A couple more photos (for people to obsess about and believe there is something wrong with the pistol ) This is with the '84 M13, not the '02 that is in some of the other pics.

 

[Master-G]

People disliked it's big fat slide as it was no longer as sleek and svelte as the 9mm P7's.

I find I like the look of it better than the 9mm P7s, which I've always thought looked too "butt heavy"...I know they're great pistols but the M10 always had more pleasing proportions to me. Nothing wrong with a big butt as long as it's balanced up top, too.