Need BOOK references for C96 DOM

H Wally

H Wally

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Hi Guys,
I'm dealing with the CFC regarding antique status C96's and am looking for a photocopy or photo of some pages from two books on the C96:


What I need is info on late 1897 production dates, specifically cone hammer guns produced in serial number batch 1999-3999. Online refers to them as being produced by October 1897 but the CFC doesn't give as much weight to website references ( http://www.g6csy.net/c96/database.html http://oldguns.net/sn_php/c96lookup.php - check any number 1999-3999, http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/index.html )

Book references, names of Verifiers who might be able to sign a statement on its date of manufacture, anything really that'll lend weight to being made pre-1898.


1) "Mauser Pistolen" by Speed, Schmidt and Weaver published by Collector Grade

2) "System-Mauser" by John Breathed Jr
 
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Highest number I have been able to find for 1897 is 12199.

12200 is listed as an 1898 gun.

Interesting point is that 12200 ALSO replaced the Cone Hammer with the Large Ring Hammer.

I would think that a gun in the 3000 range just MIGHT have been made before 12200, but what do mere mortals know, anyway?

Part of the problem is that there is so VERY little written on these fascinating firearms.... and what little has been written generally is not available, being produced in small numbers and, often, many years ago.

Good luck, Wally.
 
Wally, just thinking (I do that from time to time).

The one book you list is from Collector Grade. They are Canadian. When a Canadian book is published, TWO copies go to the National Library in Ottawa. This is compulsory; all publishers have to abide by it because it nails down your ISBN number. When you send them in, the Gummint issues you a tax receipt for the retail price of ONE copy.

That means that the book you need is in the Inter-Library Loan system. Your local library can request it for you.

Actually, the RCMP SHOULD have a copy in their own library. All they have to do is open it up.
 
smellie said:
Highest number I have been able to find for 1897 is 12199.

12200 is listed as an 1898 gun.

Interesting point is that 12200 ALSO replaced the Cone Hammer with the Large Ring Hammer.

I would think that a gun in the 3000 range just MIGHT have been made before 12200, but what do mere mortals know, anyway?

Part of the problem is that there is so VERY little written on these fascinating firearms.... and what little has been written generally is not available, being produced in small numbers and, often, many years ago.

Good luck, Wally.
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Any chance you have a reference for the 12199 serial? That would be helpful too. Thanks for your help as always smellie - I don't know how you know so much, but one day it'd be great to have a coffee and shoot some antiques :D


smellie said:
Wally, just thinking (I do that from time to time).

The one book you list is from Collector Grade. They are Canadian. When a Canadian book is published, TWO copies go to the National Library in Ottawa. This is compulsory; all publishers have to abide by it because it nails down your ISBN number. When you send them in, the Gummint issues you a tax receipt for the retail price of ONE copy.

That means that the book you need is in the Inter-Library Loan system. Your local library can request it for you.

Actually, the RCMP SHOULD have a copy in their own library. All they have to do is open it up.
Click to expand...

Great idea! I just got a library card and have a library down the street, will definitely be paying them a visit. They're quite nice people but I don't think they've ever had a gun book come through the library so should be a little bit of fun :p

Winchester_II said:
Here's a good reference if it's what you're looking for,I'm only trying to help :)

http://www.g6csy.net/c96/database.html
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Thanks for the link! For some reason the hotlinks in my original post didn't appear, but appreciate the help - every bit counts with the CFC :p Only issue is that they don't seem to give as much weight to online sources... which admittedly makes sense to some degree as there's no real process to determine fact online.
 
smellie said:
Highest number I have been able to find for 1897 is 12199.

12200 is listed as an 1898 gun.

Interesting point is that 12200 ALSO replaced the Cone Hammer with the Large Ring Hammer.

I would think that a gun in the 3000 range just MIGHT have been made before 12200, but what do mere mortals know, anyway?

Part of the problem is that there is so VERY little written on these fascinating firearms.... and what little has been written generally is not available, being produced in small numbers and, often, many years ago.

Good luck, Wally.
Click to expand...


...and you would quite possibly be wrong, but that's ok, seeing as how you are just a mere mortal. Mauser didnt necessarily sequentially serial number the C96, skipping whole blocks of numbers many times during their production over the years.

Wally check your PM's

Also the website that Winchester references is quite good.
 
Light Infantry said:
...and you would quite possibly be wrong, but that's ok, seeing as how you are just a mere mortal. Mauser didnt necessarily sequentially serial number the C96, skipping whole blocks of numbers many times during their production over the years.

Wally check your PM's

Also the website that Winchester references is quite good.
Click to expand...

I agree ^ and to wally welcome to the nightmare.
I used the site winchester II has posted along time ago with other sites to argue a gun i bought was antique in Canada it was a long drawn out discussion but in the end i won and got the letter. i dont think id go thru it again tho. the C 96 mauser is one gun you want a rcmp antique letter on before you buy it i have lettered everyone i have bought 3 i think is all i have bought in 8 years.
They dont seem to like lettering them im not sure if its because there a SA pistol that shoots smokeless ammos or the Data is so screwed up. theres very little real proof of manufacture on theses guns. Remember sales records are not manufacture records.
I have always argued that theres a certin amount of time between manufacture and sales happen.
in our case that works in our favor.
Let us know if you find anything.
 
Will do - I'm going to follow smellie's advice and order the book tomorrow at the library. I'm supposed to talk with the CFC as well, so I figure if they give the OK on the pistol, which they should considering the evidence on the websites, then great. Otherwise I'll wait for the book to show and possibly start digging up people in mauser's records department. They definitely have a service to check records... I just hope they have someone who speaks english! :p
 
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I've purchased every book that I can find on the C96 Mauser (7 books) and I've found no evidence in any of them that the CFC will accept, to prove that anything with a serial number over 1999 was made before 1898, yet I know antique letters have been issued in the past for C96's in the 4### range. I didn't know about the "Mauser Pistolen" book you reference above, so I'm going to order that one now. Fingers crossed...

Bu the way, the "System Mauser" book is absolutely useless for try to date C96's with serial numbers. It contains next to nothing about such things. The best one I've found is "The Mauser Self-Loading Pistol" by Belford and Dunlap, but it is somewhat vague as well.

I'd like to know what references they used when they issued antique status letters for C96's in higher serial number ranges.
 
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