Question for Pedersoli Sharps 45-90 owners

guninhand

guninhand

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
88   0   0
Location
East Coast
I recently examined 2 Pedersoli Sharps Long Range rifles in 45-90. Using a 500 grain .460 cast bullet with a .450 nose, and a delrin rod I measured the C.O.A.L. Close the action, insert the rod from the muzzle and mark rod at the muzzle. Then insert bullet into chamber as far as it will go, hold it in place, insert rod at muzzle and mark on it again.

This gave the maximum possible length of an assembled cartridge. Problem was, I got this C.O.A.L. length of around 3.83 inches. There is an image of a Pedersoli chamber on the internet in caliber 45-70 showing the relationship of chamber to throat and C.O.A.L. for 45-70 is given as 2.852. Since geometry forward of the chamber mouth should be similar for the 45-70 and 45-90, this suggests C.O.A.L. for THE 45-90 should be the extra amount for the longer 45-90 case, i.e. 0.3 inch, plus C.O.A.L. FOR THE 45-70, or 3.15 C.O.A.L. FOR THE 45-90. Remember, I got a measured length of 3.83

Thus the base of this bullet, which shoots spectacular in my 45-70 high wall, is over a tenth of an inch out of the case before the nose even touches the rifling. What I would like to know is what you gentlemen and ladies who own them are getting for maximum possible cartridge length in your Pedersoli 45-90 rifles?
 
I would suggest two things; one is to make a chamber cast of the gun. Unless you have some Cerrosafe, I would plug the barrel about 4" or a bit more from the breach (with a piece of cloth or paper towel) put a piece of cotton string in the chamber and fill with melted paraffin wax. The string is to keep the pieces together if they crack on coming out of the chamber. The chamber cast should show you the length of shell that the gun is chambered for. The second thing I would do is to drop your favourite slug into the chamber and measure the distance from the breach to the base of the bullet. Added to the length of the chosen slug, that gives you the overall loaded length you need for your gun. If the gun is chambered for a longer shell like the 45-100 or 120, you should see sign of that on the chamber cast. Also you would be wise to check the twist rate of the barrel; the original 45-90 was an express rifle meaning lots of powder and a light bullet. It is conceivable although not probable that Pedersoli made their gun a duplicate of original specs

cheers mooncoon
 
Mooncoon, I made a chamber cast of one of the rifles and the chamber is definately for a 45-90. The rifles were new and the manufacturer says twist is 1:18. I did a search of this forum and a number of people have reported happy results with the Pedersoli Sharps in 45-90, so I'm curious to know if the rifles I looked at are factory screw ups or are people getting these guns to shoot despite the gigantc throat.
 
guninhand said:
I recently examined 2 Pedersoli Sharps Long Range rifles in 45-90. Using a 500 grain .460 cast bullet with a .450 nose, and a delrin rod I measured the C.O.A.L. Close the action, insert the rod from the muzzle and mark rod at the muzzle. Then insert bullet into chamber as far as it will go, hold it in place, insert rod at muzzle and mark on it again.

This gave the maximum possible length of an assembled cartridge. Problem was, I got this C.O.A.L. length of around 3.83 inches. There is an image of a Pedersoli chamber on the internet in caliber 45-70 showing the relationship of chamber to throat and C.O.A.L. for 45-70 is given as 2.852. Since geometry forward of the chamber mouth should be similar for the 45-70 and 45-90, this suggests C.O.A.L. for THE 45-90 should be the extra amount for the longer 45-90 case, i.e. 0.3 inch, plus C.O.A.L. FOR THE 45-70, or 3.15 C.O.A.L. FOR THE 45-90. Remember, I got a measured length of 3.83

Thus the base of this bullet, which shoots spectacular in my 45-70 high wall, is over a tenth of an inch out of the case before the nose even touches the rifling. What I would like to know is what you gentlemen and ladies who own them are getting for maximum possible cartridge length in your Pedersoli 45-90 rifles?
Click to expand...

Hi

I shoot the Ped long range 45-90 up to 1,000 yards. Very accurate !!

I have a 540 grains .4585 cast bullet in tin/lead 1/ 20 and the nose is allso .450 ( Creedmoor Paul Jones 45001 bullet).

The COAL is 3.365 inch with the ogive on this specific bullet; I like to have the bullet 0.050 inch IN the rifling. inserted with an arizonasharpshooters cartridge seater.

You have to find what is the COAL of YOUR chamber with the specific bullet you are using.

IMHO, the best way to measure that is the Hornady Lock-N-Load : take the curved one: easier to push in the chamber while the rear sight is on.

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/...ck-n-load-oal-gauge-semi-auto--prod35889.aspx


With the screwed base cartridge: ( buy the 45-70 cartridge, il will do the job easily.

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/...ady-lock-n-load-modified-cases-prod32817.aspx


Then you have the maximun COAL for YOUR bullet and the chamber of Your gun.

Another tricky way is to use an empty case with a bullet seated just some 0.25 inch. The bullet must not be too loose nor too tight: you gently push that in the chamber, extract with a cleaning rod and take your measures.


Hope that helps.

Gerald Bergeron
 
Thank you Gerald. Your post confirms what I believe, and that is that the throats on the rifles I measured are at least a half inch too much. If you seated to just touch the rifling then your COAL would be 3.315. Given a few hundredths + or - for ogive variations and accuracy of my delrin rod measurements only a factory mistake can account for a 3.83 COAL. I'd like to get a Pedersoli Long Range Sharps in 45-90 but don't want to get stuck with one of the ones, however many they may be, that were in the bad production run.
 
I made my own modified 45-90 case as I have the drill and tap. Take a fired unsized 45-90 case into a gunsmith as a lot of gun smiths have the drill and tap and get them to drill and tap out the base. You may have to hone out the mouth to facilitate the bullet easier.
 
My Pedersoli 1874 Long Range is about 3 years old so not the latest production and it shoots very well. For the 520 gr Postell (Lyman mold # 457125) my COAL to touch the rifling is 3.233". For the 490 gr Smitzer (Lyman mold # 457658) the COAL is 3.323 - a long, pointed slug. For the flat nose 415 gr (Lyman mold 3 (457193) the COAL is only 3.00". Something is definitely changed or amiss if your COAL is in the range of 3.8". I measured COAL by gently pushing the slug into the chamber with a dowel until it touched the rifling then measured the distance from the rear of the slug to the face of the breech/ rear of the chamber using a dial caliper to .001". Then added that to the length of the slug to calculate my COAL with each bullet. My rifling twist is 1:18".
Makes me wonder if the guns you measured were inadvertently chambered for 45-120...
I have sent you a PM with additional information.
 
Is it possible that you pushed the bullet into the rifling? Are there any marks on the bullet that suggest that as a possibility?

I have not found the method you used to establish COAL to the rifling to be accurate with some cast bullets and some leades. With some combinations, with matching or gentle tapers, I have seen some bullets that can be easily pushed 0.300" into the rifling with very little effort. A good chamber cast is your best bet IMO.
 
The bullet I used to measure COAL was the Buffalo Arms .459 510 grain Creedmoor, which has a relatively blunt nose. My bullet hardness is BHN16, and there was no engraving during the measurement. While this is only a guess, it looks like the barrel was chamber reamed for a 45-90 chamber but a separate throat reamer was used for the throat, and the throat reamer used was for 45-120.
 
gunlaker said:
Is your chamber cast the one that was posted on the CastBoolits site? Although the casting is quite rough, it's quite clear that the case mouth transition is where it ought to be and that you have a mile of freebore.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?224273-Boolit-for-Pedersoli-throat

I don't know how they could have done that, but I would return it.

Chris.
Click to expand...

Yes gunlaker that is my post. I never bothered to take a chamber cast of the second rifle as with the COAL being what it was, I knew it couldn't possibly have been machined to spec.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom