How to get more people involved in Competitive Shooting

FTRRookie said:
FWIW, I will happily put myself out there if anyone has questions or wants to meet up in the spring to shoot at NCRRA/Connaught. I may not be the most experienced shooter but I hope ONT001 will still vouch for me ;).

Scott
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Hey Scott, Never mind ole ONT001, I'll vouch for you.

NormB
 
Hi Brian,
I thought somewhere on CGN a "mentorship" discussion and listing was done.
Looked but couldn't locate it for you.
i just went to the BCRA website …. http://www.bcrifle.org/schedule.html#
and it looks like their 2014 schedule won't be posted for a couple weeks .
So what I might suggest…..Start a post …a 'help wanted' directed at the BCRA lower mainland members.
Without trying to conflict with this sites rules ,I'd try it on this forum first and maybe General Forum.
Very simply…

Wanted ….the help of a BCRA experienced shooter located in the BC lower mainland .I am interested
in learning more about the programs and practices available to prospective members.Not looking for marriage ,but a couple
of dates at the range would be nice!!!

OR
Contact Brian Mylleville out there.One of the fellas I know ,and ask him if he can help you or at least put you in touch with
the right people. Check the match results pages for 2013 and see if there are any names you recognize.Lots of different types of shooters out there as well to choose from…F'ers,TR,Service etc...
Try and make a connection now so you can be ready to get prepped for when the schedule gets published.
Still,would be interesting to see how the ad goes:)

Good luck
and let me know how it works out.
Maybe we can see "How to get more…..in action!
Gord
 
Personally I have thrown the idea around in my head and really want to get into the sport formally but for myself and some others the logistics of it just don't work.

Location/proximity/access to practice ranges that are sufficient for the sport just seems to out of reach as well as having the time to dedicate to the sport, to me it isn't something one would do just an hour every second weekend or so or as time permits, you have to set aside "X" amount of time to do this with any proficiency.

I am not knocking the sport one bit, it is just that the sport doesn't lend itself to folks with tight schedules.Tight budgets, well there is ways to make that work for folks who have set incomes, heck the gear to get into it really is no worse than many other sports , probably less.

I am sure many want to give it a go but can't for varying and many reasons like myself.Maybe when a guy gets older time will make itself more available.

I guess look at how many hockey rinks vs 1000 yards ranges near your home and that would tell a lot about why the popularity of certain things are greater than others.

Again it is not the sport just the circumstances around it, one day I would love to graduate from gravel pit. :)
 
Bruno,
I'd recommend taking Scott up on his generous offer.He comes recommended by me, but MORE importantly
he has THE GreatGrandad Norm B, seal of approval…...
 
Kelly,Quite understood as the time and distances can be a PITA.
With only about 14 weekends of summer,You have to choose your poison wisely.
But…if you get a chance,even once,it maybe a good experience.
G
 
let me try and simplify

You want to "give it a try", get some help, meet some shooters, not feel intimidated or rushed, find out what old or new Betsy will do. You may or may not know much about the sport but you have a rifle, ammo and the willingness to try. You have no interest in competing.

Ultimately, you want to try new shooting activities, some new skills, meet new friends, get away from the day to day grind of life.

For this person, you want to come out to all the practise days your PRA offers. forget about anything that has MATCH in the title. Most PRA ranges that can host F class matches, have open days to just SHOOT - usually weekly and some a couple of times per week.

These are the days where you will find experienced shooters practising, trying new bad ideas, doing prep work, mucking about.

If you plan ahead, they will help you learn the basics. some will even provide a back up rifle so you can hit that black thingy out of the gate.

There is no time constraints. things are low key. There is likely more shooting with the mouth then actually pulling of the trigger.

THIS is where you want to get your feet wet and not face any of the issues some 'fear".

If it makes you feel better, call them Test and Tune days.

If you decide that a MATCH weekend is going to be your first go, there is a chance you will meet shooters who are focused, busy, stressed and not all that accommodating (might even be the same guys from the Wed gabfest). For some, this weekend may have a big investment in time, money and effort to achieve a desired goal. This is a COMPETITION and someone(s) want(s) to win something.

the larger the match, the higher this stress level. For some, these matches may lead to bigger projects and be very important so they are going to react briskly to addn stress and distractions.

would you enter a golfing tournament, then ask your group to help you with your swing or find your golf balls? NO. The response you would get from competitive golfers would be far from pleasant.

Here, you find how accommodating F class shooters actually are. I have helped newbies at a match as have many other top Canadian shooters. Hell, some have taken out back up rifles to plop it down for newbies to shoot.

so decide what you want to get out of your time at the range. If you want that social part of the sport and really have experienced shooters give some extra time, GO TO PRACTISE SESSIONS. They are usually weekly at most ranges and the end results will be far more positive.

Now if COMPETING is the goal but you are a novice, you WILL get help at the match (at least to the limits of the rules) but have your bases covered so are at least functional and versant with the steps. yes, you can go to a practise session and get lots of help on how to prepare for a match and the steps you will face. the match director will be able to provide general info on the layout, squadding, and so forth. This is where you ask questions like what does the relay actually mean. what is the procedure for shooting multiple to a target.

And YES, sometimes all the info you want is on the back of that score card..... don't ask :)

The general stuff, if you haven't already answered those before hand (you should have). If you are functional but a bit behind cause you didn't understand about setting up on the right or left side, or how to call out a score or that stuff, any experienced shooter is going to work with you and get things sorted out. we sometimes have to do what with experienced shooters :)

So this is a give and take from all parties. the group is welcoming and helpful. Don't expect to be coddled. You will make mistakes. Things will not always go the way you like... that's life.

the best part, any newbie going to ANY PRA range is going to meet up with top Canadian shooters. some are top international shooters. And they will help you...

Just do your part to make their time productive and be receptive to direct opinions. If you don't understand, ask for clarification. DON'T START A DEBATE ON WHY YOU DISAGREE ABOUT WHATEVER. That will lead to a very short and abrupt end to your help.

YMMV.

Jerry
 
Kelly Timoffee said:
Personally I have thrown the idea around in my head and really want to get into the sport formally but for myself and some others the logistics of it just don't work.

Location/proximity/access to practice ranges that are sufficient for the sport just seems to out of reach as well as having the time to dedicate to the sport, to me it isn't something one would do just an hour every second weekend or so or as time permits, you have to set aside "X" amount of time to do this with any proficiency.

I am not knocking the sport one bit, it is just that the sport doesn't lend itself to folks with tight schedules.Tight budgets, well there is ways to make that work for folks who have set incomes, heck the gear to get into it really is no worse than many other sports , probably less.

I am sure many want to give it a go but can't for varying and many reasons like myself.Maybe when a guy gets older time will make itself more available.

I guess look at how many hockey rinks vs 1000 yards ranges near your home and that would tell a lot about why the popularity of certain things are greater than others.

Again it is not the sport just the circumstances around it, one day I would love to graduate from gravel pit. :)
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These are great points but that is balancing family life regardless of the vocation.

I understand why it is done but would be great if big matches weren't only held on long weekends. Puts a strain on what can be attended by those with family commitments.

As for practise, if you can shoot, you can practise AND you can do it economically. Ideal, NO but lead down range over wind flags is better then nothing. Crown land is your friend. Nearby mid distance ranges make ideal places to practise too.

if you have limited time to practise, go out when the weather sucks. Wind is your friend and you may as well figure out as much as you can about dealing with her tantrums. Also, families tend to stay indoors on bad weather weekends so might free up some daddy time.

How does Daddy get away for 5 hours to smack a ball into a small cup? Thousands do. It's a balance but it can be done.

If you really want to go to a match, see if you can just "book" that as a family or personal time off. And they just go do it

Jerry
 
I may have started a family, if I had time for one. :p

The thing that I find difficult is when you shoot alone on crown land is that spotting and marking shots at distance becomes extremely difficult and time consuming,and I haven't ventured to 1000 yet.

Maybe time to invest in one of dem dere camera systems.

Mystic Precision said:
These are great points but that is balancing family life regardless of the vocation.

I understand why it is done but would be great if big matches weren't only held on long weekends. Puts a strain on what can be attended by those with family commitments.

As for practise, if you can shoot, you can practise AND you can do it economically. Ideal, NO but lead down range over wind flags is better then nothing. Crown land is your friend. Nearby mid distance ranges make ideal places to practise too.

if you have limited time to practise, go out when the weather sucks. Wind is your friend and you may as well figure out as much as you can about dealing with her tantrums. Also, families tend to stay indoors on bad weather weekends so might free up some daddy time.

How does Daddy get away for 5 hours to smack a ball into a small cup? Thousands do. It's a balance but it can be done.

If you really want to go to a match, see if you can just "book" that as a family or personal time off. And they just go do it

Jerry
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Wireless TX/RX, digi cam, LCD monitor and a couple of batteries. Dirt cheap nowadays. Work great and you score each shot.

with wind flags, you can do a lot of learning on your own.

There really is no way to learn to dope conditions without seeing where each shot lands. Otherwise, you are just doing an educated guess on what the group represents.

If you can, run a digicam looking down range the same time. Now you can play back what was going on as you shot vs where the shot landed. As long as put a start cue, you can record how your shooting went. That is actually a very powerful tool cause you will never see ALL the flags when you shoot. Sometimes, it a change you don't see that sends you out.

With the recording, you will be able to look at the changes in flags and compare to your dope notes (you did do that right?) vs where the shot went.

Jerry

Jerry
 
Made this entry in the Factory rifle Post. Might be worth consideration here as well:


"Great discussion guys and plenty of well thought out ideas.

We all agree that the goal is to entice and encourage more participation. To help new shooters have the best experience they can so they will become ongoing participants. Now the fork in the road:

1) Establish a FACTORY class. This becomes a THIRD F class shot nationally. Open to all shooters but restricted by the type of gear. Main benefit, rules put a cap on the costs so that more can AFFORD to join. Although an entry point, it can also be a destination onto itself where economics is the driving factor.

I have suggested rules to really cap the gaming and even go so far as to restrict what can be used. It becomes a merger of Open and FTR revolving around off the shelf production rifles commonly available to Canadians.

2) Establish an Entry Class (Intro class???). This will be shot using F Open/TR formats - factory or custom rifles allowed. Difference, newbies will be offered addn support and even guidance. If opportunity allows, these shooters will be squadded together and coached -help is available on the line during the relay. Although shooting in the reg classes, there will be prizes specific to these new shooters. So it is different from long time lower classification shooter. The New shooter status would only last for a limited time and then their classification would establish their position in the normal F Open and FTR ranks.

Their first matches will have complete support so all the basic questions and concerns can be addressed right away. They are literally walked through their first match or two. Their results should be positive out of the gate and a lot of fears/issues with F Class addressed fast. The hope is that they are up to speed after a couple of matches and become reg competitors.

I am thinking option #2 sure sounds like a great idea. if offered at the club level matches, should have no issue getting help from more experienced shooters and the high cost of disappointment can be reduced.

This should keep help get more "experienced" shooters to the larger provincial and regional matches. Avoid fears of experienced shooters being squadded with a brand new shooter that may be a distraction.

What do you all think?

Jerry

The biggest thing that comes out is all PRA's must make a better effort to publicise themselves, their events and contacts for help."
 
Making it more accessible equipment wise is only one of the ingredients needed.

If you think about how people get into shootings sports, they rarely start off competing right off the bat. Someone who goes out and buys a handgun usually doesn’t go out and start shooting IPSC/IDPA right after they get it. They spend some time at the local range just shooting it, and learning how to use it. If you go down to the US, you have many private long distance ranges where people can join, and go shoot long distance at their own pace, on their own time the same way you do with a handgun at the local clubs here. I belonged to a really nice one in Indiana. It’s far easier for a new shooter to get into long range shooting in that setting, and go through most of the learning curve (which still exists even if they’ve spend a lot of time shooting their rifle on a 100 or 200 yard range). It’s relaxed and free from pressure. Many people just go out to shoot with no intention of competing. Some of them will end up competing, others won't. But, they may bring friends or relatives to the range that also get into long distance shooting and do find their way to competition.

That step is something we are missing in long distance shooting in Canada. It isn’t as convenient or as easy for people to get into long range shooting here because of limited range access. In many places in Canada, you can only shoot at long distance range if you know someone who has a farm, or through a PRA whose focus is on competition. That focus on competition turns many new shooters off. Getting people to try competition is a lot like getting them to fall in love. You can't force it, and the harder you try, the less chance you have of succeeding. The best chance you have comes when you create the right conditions (free from pressure), and simply allow it to happen. If we really want to get a lot of new people to try long distance shooting competitions, we need to first focus on just getting them to try long range shooting without any pressure to compete.
 
kombayotch said:
Making it more accessible equipment wise is only one of the ingredients needed.

If you think about how people get into shootings sports, they rarely start off competing right off the bat. Someone who goes out and buys a handgun usually doesn’t go out and start shooting IPSC/IDPA right after they get it. They spend some time at the local range just shooting it, and learning how to use it. If you go down to the US, you have many private long distance ranges where people can join, and go shoot long distance at their own pace, on their own time the same way you do with a handgun at the local clubs here. I belonged to a really nice one in Indiana. It’s far easier for a new shooter to get into long range shooting in that setting, and go through most of the learning curve (which still exists even if they’ve spend a lot of time shooting their rifle on a 100 or 200 yard range). It’s relaxed and free from pressure. Many people just go out to shoot with no intention of competing. Some of them will end up competing, others won't. But, they may bring friends or relatives to the range that also get into long distance shooting and do find their way to competition.

That step is something we are missing in long distance shooting in Canada. It isn’t as convenient or as easy for people to get into long range shooting here because of limited range access. In many places in Canada, you can only shoot at long distance range if you know someone who has a farm, or through a PRA whose focus is on competition. That focus on competition turns many new shooters off. Getting people to try competition is a lot like getting them to fall in love. You can't force it, and the harder you try, the less chance you have of succeeding. The best chance you have comes when you create the right conditions (free from pressure), and simply allow it to happen. If we really want to get a lot of new people to try long distance shooting competitions, we need to first focus on just getting them to try long range shooting without any pressure to compete.
Click to expand...

kombayotch, you have been reading my -not so elegant- posts, I agree with you and FTRRookie.
I think that most wannabe LR shooters at private ranges know that shooting on DND property requires a different discipline than shooting at the local club. They are also aware that most members compete. If not, it can be explained in a few minutes.
What most don’t understand is how the process works, they want to shoot 500 yards, but the process is very difficult: OCRA, NCRRA, PRA, ORA, and a dozen other acronyms, it’s very intimidating. Yes, they can Google all this stuff and get some answers, but not all. The details take time to learn, hell; I don’t even know what some of those acronyms mean!
I was first invited to Connaught many years ago, to attend an intro day. Paul was at a local range recruiting, he invited me and Scott. I must say, it was a great experience. Safety lesson first, what to do/not do on a DND range second, sign the paperwork third, that’s it, let’s shoot. NO BS.
Why not have mini intro days every Wednesday during practice? One/two newbies only, every regular member takes his/her turn at it. Make arrangements to cover insurance and come up with a reasonable price. If this can be done with a simple invitation by a member, then great!
The secret here is to treat the newbies as such. They do not have to be exposed to all the finer details of competition, gunsmithing, tuning rifles etc. on the first visit. Let them shoot, let them have fun, get them interested. Let them progress and ask questions at their own pace. Make it a salesman’s job; focus on safety, DND discipline, nothing else. This is the way people are treated when they join any other private club.
You guys can discuss formal “factory” classes all you want, but you first have get people in the door. Make it easy to open the door first, let people shoot. And, at the risk of repeating myself, I still think that informal “club level” Wednesday only, factory class, including optional “club level” Wednesday only, informal factory competitions could attract a lot of members and be fun.
 
I really like the last 2 posts!!

Being exactly the type of newbie you guys are trying to attract it makes the most sense to me. I live on a farm here in south western Manitoba and being on the prairies it's really hard to find a good long range spot due to the lack of natural backstops. I shoot 200-300m 99% of the time and do so weekly. I'd say that I shoot more then most normal shooters do.

But all of that said I'd hate to show up to the DND range and be expected to hit a target at 800-1000 on the first go. So I plan to check out my local PRA and shoot during practice on Wensdays and maybe Sunday's to start.

It may take me a year or more before I'll enter a match, I can't even put a time frame on it cause I've never shot at 800-1000 before.

Also I will have to decide which class (probably TR as I perfer no optics) so that may take some time to sort out. Then it will be getting a rifle, shooting mat, shooting glove, a good spotting scope, learning how to score, practicing with all of that equipment til I feel I'm ready.

I guess to me you can offer any class you want for "newbies" but it's hard to say how many will want to jump in and compete on the first try.

I'm a person who loves to try new things but even I was a little intimidated when I attended my first "fun shoot" last year at the range at Wolverine Supply. I was a volunteer, helped set up the firing line and targets. When the line went hot I thought I may be in over my head but by the end of the day I realized that I was shooting as well as anybody else there with a service rifle.

It was a friendly shoot, anyone who went through the range briefing could shoot even if they needed to borrow a rifle. But even then there was more people watching then taking place. I went into the crowd to try get more people to come and try to ring the 300 yard gong but it was in many cases like pulling teeth.

The other CGN'ers that were there were very helpful and gave me some tips and tricks. They were very good at showing some of us newbies the ropes. Now I really want to join my PRA and eventually shoot in matches, as I realized that it's not so scary as I once thought.

I think the last post hit the nail on the head, the old-timers and guys that are involved in matches simply need to get people to come to the range and then help them out and make them feel that they are welcome regaurdless of what they shoot.

The rest will happen on it's own.
 
You want to get more people into shooting get more people on the mounds and make them feel welcome. you have to go to them !

BTW most people don't usually drop a couple grand on a hobby before they actually tried it and usually don't have a clue what they need.
 
I was a newbie this past season and encourage anyone who is contemplating shooting F Class to just go out and do it. Once you do, you'll be hooked, I guarantee it.

I started out going the opposite route then what everyone recommends, but I'm a canonballer, not a toedipper, and it worked out ok for me. I had never shot a rifle before, but after reading about F Class I decided that I wanted to do it.

I went out and purchased a Savage 12 Palma and some reloading equipment that I figured would do the job and then showed up at Cedar Springs for a couple of practice sessions. Since I kept all the shots in the black at 300m I said to myself, why not just jump in, and then proceeded to sign up for the Easterns, Provincials and Nationals.

Showing up by myself at the Easterns I had two thoughts in mind: 1) just treat this shoot as an experience builder and not worry about your score 2) most importantly, don't hinder the flow of my fellow competitors while shooting and don't bother anyone with questions until it was timely to do so. I did have one hiccup on the second day, I had forgotten to adjust my scope back down to 300m after finishing the 900m the day before and put my first two sighters over the top of the target. I was shooting with Mark F who kindly reminded me of it and I was back on target for the rest of the relay. I finished the match with no complaints from my fellow shooters, received many tips from all the guys and even won a Sinclair bipod as a door prize, so all in all it was a great first match to get my feet wet.

The one disappointing thing that I learned was that my barrel hated the Lapua 155's. Out of nowhere, with no change in conditions, it would shoot a high 4 or even worse a 3 randomly. I tried everything that I could to tune these loads but no dice. I had 1000 of these bullets, and at the time I couldn't find Bergers anywhere. My confidence going into the Provincial and Nationals was extremely low, knowing that I couldn't come close to shooting as well as I thought I could, but I went anyhow. Every shot was a grind, I would start a string of 5's or V's and then bam! a 3 would come out of nowhere. This was mentally frustrating but in the end I think it helped me develop some mental toughness. although I did entertain packing it up a few times.

On a side note,I was placed 3 to a mound for the first time with Bob Raymond and Marcel and am pleased to say that we finished ahead of everyone else who were shooting 2 to a mound and my being a rookie did not affect their scoring in the least. By chance, I shot quite a few relays with Bob this summer and never had any complaints from him, so I couldn't have been doing too bad etiquette wise.

I ended up putting on a new barrel on in time for the last shoots of the season and got some 185 LRBT's to shoot. I packed up my gear, decided to bring my sports psychologist with me to evaluate my shooting and headed to Borden for the Fall Palma. I was getting ready for the first relay, fidgeting with my gear when my sports psychologist came up to calm me down. With the succinct wisdom that you would expect she told me " Just get your head out of you a$$ and put the bullet in the center of the target." So, I went up to the 800 yard line and proceeded to shoot a 74/75 and win my first relay on a count back. On the next relay the wind started up a bit so, I adjusted for it an bam, a half inch out of the five ring. Ok, not enough, gave her a little bit more and bam, about an inch and a half off the line, next shot a little more with the same result. I thought damn, the wind isn't that strong, I looked at my sheets, looked at my scope, and then realized that I was turning the windage knob the wrong way. After dropping 3 points due to that mishap, I got back to the center on the next shot and did well the rest of the relay although I did get admonished from the sports psychologist for lack of focus and concentration. I was happy to finish strong after a weak start to my rookie season though.

One thing that I have to comment on is that while shooting, I noticed that NormB was sitting next to my sports psychologist while I was shooting the match. I found out later that he was educating her on the finer points of F Class shooting. Well, thanks a f##ckin lot Norm. I had to drive home for 4 hours listening to her tell me what I was doing wrong and that's not what Norm said you should do. Oh and BTW if you haven't figured it out, my sports psychologist is my wife.LOL

So, this is the story of my rookie season in F Class in Ontario. No intimidation, no bad comments on my gear or negative experiences at all. Just a lot of good guys who are gracious with their time and knowledge and even though I still consider myself a green shooter, I will definitely help you out and make you feel welcomed if you come.

Todd
 
Lil Evil,

Nice to hear a success story, and good shooting on your part.
Your post will encourage more people to try out LR shooting. Good work.
I’m jealous!!
 
Cet,

Well, I don't know if I would call it a success story as I finished near the bottom most of the time, but I kept plugging away, after all, a bad day of shooting is way better than a good day at work. I know it would be frowned upon, and rightfully so, by most shooters to have someone show up to a regional event with the little experience that I had and participate. Every individual will have to decide when they're ready to compete in a match. Just remember though, "you can't be a race car driver if all you ever do is practice laps."

I'm more jealous of you. I would give my left nut to live as close to Connaught as you do. Take Scott and the boys up on their offer to go to practice days and try it out. I guarantee you'll get hooked.
 
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