Trail Boss and 45ACP

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grinder08

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So I have been trying Trail Boss in my 45ACP reloads. Why you may ask? Because I have had a couple of double charges using Titegroup and wanted to use a bulkier powder to prevent this. I was loading right at the bottom end of the range with Titegroup so the double charge was within the proof load so it didn't do any damage but I can do without it. I can't seem to get HS 6 which would be my prefered powder and had some Trail Boss on hand. I am loading 4.5 Grains of Trail Boss with 230gr copper plated bullets OAL 1.252 and it seems to work really well. This powder charge is just below the base of the bullet. No change in accuracy. A noticeable decrease in recoil. Gun cycles no problem at all. The powder burns very clean which is nice.

My big problem is I can't seem to find any loading data for this combination. IMR says you can't over pressurize the casing with Trail Boss if you load to the base of the bullet so I am not concerned about the safety. Subjectively it seems to have less recoil than 4.0 gr of Titegroup or commercial loads I have tried.

Has anyone else tried Trail Boss in 45ACP or have any loading data for copper plated bullets. IMR says to use the lower to midrange values for an FMJ bullet but I can't find loading data for 230gr FMJ and Trail Boss, lead yes but not FMJ or Copper Plated. I don't have a chrono, on my wish list, so don't really know what the bullet velocity is.
 
There is probably a very good reason that this info is not published. My best guess is, that any FMJ and this powder, could lead to a bullet being stuck in the barrel.
A lead bullet of the same weight, would be less likely to react in the same dangerous manner.

maybe.....
 
Brutus said:
There is probably a very good reason that this info is not published. My best guess is, that any FMJ and this powder, could lead to a bullet being stuck in the barrel.
A lead bullet of the same weight, would be less likely to react in the same dangerous manner.

maybe.....
Click to expand...

I agree about the FMJ but Copper plated are supposed to be somewhat softer. There are certainly no signs of there not being enough oomph to push the bullets out. Accuracy is good and it shoots flat at 10yards. Bullets hits exactly where pointed.
 
We really don't know how much juice is required to get that bullet to exit the barrel. If this present data is right on the edge with this bullet and powder combination, a slight deviation to the lower end could result in a stuck bullet scenario. The big powder companies aren't stupid when playing with fire, so to speak. Otherwise loading data for this, would be much easier to stumble upon right?
 
Something I would not otherwise admit: I've been down this road before substituting electro-plated bullets for lead & using lead bullet data.
Result; I had a bullet sticking out of the muzzle of my really nice and discontinued S&W Model 624 at the range with a REALLY stupid look on my face!!! Oh yeah, another really hazardous side effect was large pieces of the plated copper breaking off into huge richocette pieces!
Thankfully I recognized this dangerous condition and ceased fire. A 24 hour soak in kroil and 12-14 strikes with a dead blow hammer & a brass drift resolved this matter. One would guess that a bullet half-way out of the barrel would be easier to pull outwards right? Wrong again! Had to force it backwards, the long way with a increased chance of damaging this otherwise fine barrel and muzzle crown.
Could have been worse, alot worse.........

you've been fairly warned from another confirmed dummy!
 
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Brutus said:
We really don't know how much juice is required to get that bullet to exit the barrel. If this present data is right on the edge with this bullet and powder combination, a slight deviation to the lower end could result in a stuck bullet scenario. The big powder companies aren't stupid when playing with fire, so to speak. Otherwise loading data for this, would be much easier to stumble upon right?
Click to expand...

I think my main problem is no specific loading info for copper plated. I have seen general recommendations of load as if its lead to load to medium FMJ. These seem to provide significant variation. If I treat it as lead no problem if I treat it as FMJ no data therefor shouldn't do it. Pretty different answers. I am just hoping someone may have something a bit more definitive than what I have found.

Hodgdon gives a range for Trail Boss with 230gr LRN of 3.5 grains to 4.5gr. I am loading at 4.5gr so I figure that should be safe from an ooomph point of view.

I have also done comparisons with other powders to determine ratios and how one powder relates to another so I am pretty sure I am safe.
 
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grinder08 said:
I think my main problem is no specific loading info for copper plated. I have seen general recommendations of load as if its lead to load to medium FMJ. These seem to provide significant variation. If I treat it as lead no problem if I treat it as FMJ no data therefor shouldn't do it. Pretty different answers. I am just hoping someone may have something a bit more definitive than what I have found.
Click to expand...
Yeah, well read post #5 here once again buddy.
 
if IMR says you can't over pressurize a round by filling it to the base of the bullet, then you have a load for ANY bullet...

i use it for my 500mag and 357mag, just don't compress the powder because if you break the little donuts you change the burn rate.
 
Universal Clays might be another alternative. Double charges will still fit in the case, but they should be pretty easy to spot.
 
Brutus said:
Yeah, well read post #5 here once again buddy.
Click to expand...

My logic behind saying the load I am using is not underpowered is as follows,
LRN min 4.0 gr titegroup
FMJ min 4.4 gr titegroup this is a 10 percent increase for FMJ

LRN min 3.5 gr Trail Boss 10 percent increase 3.85 gr so 4.5 is significantly over the min
Max 4.5 gr Trail Boss to be safe keep it at 4.5gr as this fills the case and don't want compression and breaking grains as it is a fast powder. In addition the performance with LRN of 4.5 Trail Boss and 4.0 of titegroup is very similar in the low to mid range of velocities. So I am not just throwing powder in and hoping for the best.

I am having trouble with my primer feed and when I am fiddling with it sometimes I miss seeing the overcharge with titegroup as you can put 8 grs in and it is still well down from the rim of the case. I think the risk from the double charge is much higher. And yes I am trying to solve the primer feed problem and taking much more care.
 
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