.308 reloading issues

[Maximum]

Hi guys my reloading experience is primarily .45 ACP and I have confidently ironed out all my issues there, but I have started reloading rifle and have a problem. I have a BLR in .308. I was having trouble getting a full lock on some of my reloads and thought that it was an OAL problem with the profile of my cast bullets. But then I started chambering just brass to troubleshoot and found that even after full length resizing and trimming about 1/3 of them will not fit. The ones that do fit have no problem with my bullets all the way up to 2.8" OAL, So OAL not the problem. Shouldn't they all come out the same? Obviously not so...

What gives?

 

[thump_rrr]

Get an L.E. Wilson or Dillon .308 case gauge to see if you're pushing the shoulder far enough.
Also use a vernier caliper or micrometer to measure if the base is sized below maximum specification.
You may need to use a small base die to get your brass to chamber.
Was this brass fired in a semi auto or is it range pickup?

 

[Trinimon]

Could be you're not getting the neck bumped back just far enough. When you FL your cases, run the ram all the way up and see if you can see light between the shell holder and bottom of the die. Pickup a gauge like a Sheridan Slot gauge or LE Wilson or Hornady case gauge.

 

[Maximum]

Ok, embarrassingly simple turns out they weren't quite all the way sized. But darn that last 100th or so was tough. They all fit now. Unfortunately my table has a little flex to it that was masking this. Thanks!

 

[yomomma]

You can send me a few cases and I can measure them for you.

 

[HIGHRPM]

I was having issues with my cases, yet I thought I had everything down pat. I was also told to get a case gauge, and there was the answer, I was not where I thought I was in my settings. The case gauges are a blessing !

 

[silverfoxdj]

I was having issues with my cases, yet I thought I had everything down pat. I was also told to get a case gauge, and there was the answer, I was not where I thought I was in my settings. The case gauges are a blessing !

+1 Echo that started with a Wilson case guage in 223, I'd get one for every calibre I load for now.. very handy would not be without one.

 

[jankovig]

I use a Hornady headspace gauge with multiple inserts for different calibers. It works just fine.
Alot of people just neck size until they can't chamber the brass anymore. At that point,
the brass has stretched too much and you have to bump it back considerably more (0.004" or
more) to get it to chamber again, compared to 0.001"-0.002" if you do it after every firing.

My advice, get a Lee collet neck sizing die in conjuction with a Redding body die or a FL die,
that you can setup to just bump the shoulder. Of course a case gauge and a good set of calipers
are indispensable.

 

[bigedp51]

Ok, embarrassingly simple turns out they weren't quite all the way sized. But darn that last 100th or so was tough. They all fit now. Unfortunately my table has a little flex to it that was masking this. Thanks!

When full length resizing to get the most consistent cartridge headspace length from shoulder to the base of the case you "pause" at the top of the ram stroke for three seconds. At the Sniper's Hide forum this same subject came up and a Youtube video was posted showing this method.

The case was full length resized and adjusted for the correct shoulder bump. The case was sized and then rotated 180 degrees and sized again pausing at the top of the ram stroke. Pausing helps prevent brass spring back and the second sizing reduces runout and tells the brass to stay put.

Below a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and a Colt 5.56 Field gauge.

Below the Colt Field gauge, 1.4736

Below, the field gauge in the calibrated Hornady gauge reading true headspace and no longer a comparator gauge. The Hornady gauge is adjusted by placing a feeler gauge between the red and silver bodies of the gauge and adjusting its length.

Below a factory loaded once fired Federal M193 case fired in my AR15 carbine.

The same case full length resized with .003 shoulder bump.

Below, a new unfired Federal M193 cartridge that is .002 shorter than the GO gauge.

silverfoxdj

I retired all my Wilson case gauges and now use them for paper weights and pen holders.

I also switch to a digital set of vernier calipers so my criminologically gifted eyesight won't strain my bifocals.

When full length resizing the brass is squeezed and the case gets "LONGER" in headspace and then it is pushed back by the shoulder of the resizing die. The brass is resilient and tries to "spring back" to its longer size after sizing. So remember pausing at the top of the ram stroke tells the brass who's the boss and to stay put.

As you can see below special effort is needed to hold things in their proper place.

 

[thump_rrr]

When full length resizing to get the most consistent cartridge headspace length from shoulder to the base of the case you "pause" at the top of the ram stroke for three seconds. At the Sniper's Hide forum this same subject came up and a Youtube video was posted showing this method.

The case was full length resized and adjusted for the correct shoulder bump. The case was sized and then rotated 180 degrees and sized again pausing at the top of the ram stroke. Pausing helps prevent brass spring back and the second sizing reduces runout and tells the brass to stay put.

Below a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and a Colt 5.56 Field gauge.

Below the Colt Field gauge, 1.4736

Below, the field gauge in the calibrated Hornady gauge reading true headspace and no longer a comparator gauge. The Hornady gauge is adjusted by placing a feeler gauge between the red and silver bodies of the gauge and adjusting its length.

Below a factory loaded once fired Federal M193 case fired in my AR15 carbine.

The same case full length resized with .003 shoulder bump.

Below, a new unfired Federal M193 cartridge that is .002 shorter than the GO gauge.

silverfoxdj

I retired all my Wilson case gauges and now use them for paper weights and pen holders.

I also switch to a digital set of vernier calipers so my criminologically gifted eyesight won't strain my bifocals.

When full length resizing the brass is squeezed and the case gets "LONGER" in headspace and then it is pushed back by the shoulder of the resizing die. The brass is resilient and tries to "spring back" to its longer size after sizing. So remember pausing at the top of the ram stroke tells the brass who's the boss and to stay put.

As you can see below special effort is needed to hold things in their proper place.

The problem with the Hornady headspace gauge is that the inserts are crap.
My .400 insert for .308 is off by 0.007" which means that it can only be used as a comparator.
This is due to the soft material used in its manufacture.

I have a Sinclair on order which is made with stainless steel inserts which should be much better.

 

[woodlotowner]

All my BLRs have exhibited very tight chambers at or near the 'go' guage end of things. The die needs to be set with a fair bit of cam-over resistance to make sure there is no gap present between the die and the shell holder, which results in the shoulder not being bumped back enough. On the Model 81 in .270 WSM, I could only get about 1/3 of my resized brass to chamber no matter what I did. In the end, I planed 0.008" (8 thou) off the shell holder (rather than reduce the length of the die itself, which is an option) and this did the trick. A small base die will not improve things in this scenario, since, in my case, it's not a case diameter issue, but rather a shoulder issue.

 

[Lead Loader]

When full length resizing to get the most consistent cartridge headspace length from shoulder to the base of the case you "pause" at the top of the ram stroke for three seconds. At the Sniper's Hide forum this same subject came up and a Youtube video was posted showing this method.

The case was full length resized and adjusted for the correct shoulder bump. The case was sized and then rotated 180 degrees and sized again pausing at the top of the ram stroke. Pausing helps prevent brass spring back and the second sizing reduces runout and tells the brass to stay put.

Below a Hornady cartridge case headspace gauge and a Colt 5.56 Field gauge.

Below the Colt Field gauge, 1.4736

Below, the field gauge in the calibrated Hornady gauge reading true headspace and no longer a comparator gauge. The Hornady gauge is adjusted by placing a feeler gauge between the red and silver bodies of the gauge and adjusting its length.

Below a factory loaded once fired Federal M193 case fired in my AR15 carbine.

The same case full length resized with .003 shoulder bump.

Below, a new unfired Federal M193 cartridge that is .002 shorter than the GO gauge.

silverfoxdj

I retired all my Wilson case gauges and now use them for paper weights and pen holders.

I also switch to a digital set of vernier calipers so my criminologically gifted eyesight won't strain my bifocals.

When full length resizing the brass is squeezed and the case gets "LONGER" in headspace and then it is pushed back by the shoulder of the resizing die. The brass is resilient and tries to "spring back" to its longer size after sizing. So remember pausing at the top of the ram stroke tells the brass who's the boss and to stay put.

As you can see below special effort is needed to hold things in their proper place.

Ohhhhh i see i see, large calibers yess

 

[Baribal]

You may simply need a small base die. You need to take measurements on your cases and find where the difference is. Easiest way to start is to measure the bases, about 0.200" above the case head (around where you see the shiny ring).

 

[Kryogen]

had to grind my lee die to be able to bump the shoulder enough for some rifles.

even caming over and SB die didnt make it.

 

[H4831]

I once had a high quality custom made 243 on a 98 action. Factory ammo loaded perfectly, but my first batch of full length sized old 243 brass would not let the bolt close. I made sure the press was cammed over enough to ensure no daylight between shell holder and die, but they still would not go in the chamber.
Finally figured it out. The old brass was springing back on the shoulder after being removed from the die. I annealed the brass, resized it and it easily went in the chamber.
Years ago I once ground down a shell holder to get cases in a Schultz and Larsen in 7x61. However, I don't think this should be necessary. All our tools and components are made to SAAMI standards, and while there is an allowable tolerance and this can double between two instruments, the cases still should go in, if everything is right, including using new, or annealed brass.

 

[oldbadger]

One little tiny issue is to make sure you are using "in brand" shell holders with your dies. I bought one of those handy-dandy boxes of Lee shell holders, and had similar problems when using one particular brand (NOT Lee) of FL 308 die. Switching to the mating SAME BRAND SHELL HOLDER made the problem GO AWAY.

 

[Kryogen]

had the issue with lee/lee

And, even with the lee die, and the co-ax press (no shell holder), cant grind the plate.

had to grind the lee die.

did not try to anneal the cases before re-trying though. I just grinded enough, and then adjusted it to make cases that just barely fit in the bolt.