First Reloads - Am I On The Right Track?

RedDragon

CGN frequent flyer
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
5   0   0
Location
Sudbury, Ontario
So, last night I proceeded to load my first 10 cartridges for my 30-06 Ruger American. I purchased 425 mixed brass from a GN on the EE, 99% of which came primed.

There were two types of primers used on the brass - Winchester WLR #8-1/2-120's and Federal LR #210's. I sorted the brass into primer types, then brass manufacturer types.

I am running a Lee Classic Turret Press (and all the associate accessories that come with it), Lee 30-06 dies (F/L resize & decap, rifle charging die, bullet seating and factory crimp die), RCBS powder trickler-2, Hornady Interlock 180 GR BTSP's and IMR 4350 powder. I am also using an electronic scale to measure the grams (not grains) of powder as a check prior to using the Lee scale and trickler to reach my target load. Using a CT digital caliper to check the case and seated bullet length.

My plan is to prepare 5 rounds per primer type (10 rounds total) at the minimum load (53 grains), then increase by 0.5 grains towards the max load (off the top of my head, around 55-56 grains). This will produce 30 total rounds (10 rounds at each powder load, 5 per primer type). The minimum loads are using Winchester brass, the next load is using RP brass and the final load is using Federal brass.

I have looked at the Lee reloading manual that states a starting load of 53 grains of IMR 4350. By taking a look on the web, I found that Hornady recommends a O.A.L. of 3.245 inches (buying the 9th edition manual today).

I started out by setting my Lee scale to 53 grains, then measuring out 3.4 grams of powder into my Lee powder pan on my digital scale (grain equivalent in grams). I then put the powder pan on the Lee scale and trickled the remaining required powder until I hit the 53 grains. This powder was then put through a funnel and rifle charging die into a piece of brass. This process was repeated until 5 brass were loaded with powder. I then too my flashlight to confirm that each brass was charged and looked similar.

I then proceeded to back out the bullet seating die as far as it would go. I seated a bullet in one of the brass and progressively increased the seating depth, measuring with the digital calipers after each pull to check the O.A.L. Once I reached the target O.A.L. (3.245 in), I moved onto the remaining brass and checked the O.A.L. of each one. I tested the first completed cartridge and it chambered from my clip and ejected like a dream!

Finally, I put them through the factory crimp die, which I found the toughest to judge! I think I put a decent crimp on them, but at least they are all consistent!

Here is the first round of cartridges at the minimum load!


I was so worried about the powder load that I redid the initial brass load about 4 times! It took me 1.5 hours to do the 10 cartridges, but now the press is set and it should go quicker, albeit as long as I am manually measuring the powder, I won't be looking to rush through it! It was nerve-racking due to not wanted to mess the powder charge up, but I loved every minute of it!!

Any comments or tips would be greatly appreciated!
 
Sounds like your on the right track... I'm not a fan of the factory crimp (ford chevy arguement).. If it works for you great go for it.. Try a few with out some time down the road... Thank you for looking down the casing to make sure powder was in before proceeding... Doing one thing at a time before moving forward... Get yourself a log book.. Write down what you did,powder primer charges lengths and your results from the range... Oh welcome to the addiction
Leroy
 
Sounds like your on the right track... I'm not a fan of the factory crimp (ford chevy arguement).. If it works for you great go for it.. Try a few with out some time down the road... Thank you for looking down the casing to make sure powder was in before proceeding... Doing one thing at a time before moving forward... Get yourself a log book.. Write down what you did,powder primer charges lengths and your results from the range... Oh welcome to the addiction
Leroy

Thanks Leroy, definitely addicted! I am going new school and have an electronic (excel) log setup. That way I can bring my tablet to the range and keep track... actually I may keep both, less technology issues with the pen/pencil and paper!
 
Hi. I'm also a noob but, just going strictly by the Hornady 9th Edition manual, I see some discrepancies:

1) For 180 gr InterLock BTSP, Hornady lists the following powder charges for IMR 4350:

* 46.7 gr = 2300 FPS (MIN CHARGE)
* 48.6 gr = 2400 FPS
* 50.6 gr = 2500 FPS
* 52.5 gr = 2600 FPS
* 54.5 gr = 2700 FPS (MAX CHARGE)

I know different sources will present differing load data, but be aware that you are already near the max listed charge listed in the Hornady book.

I took a look at the Hodgdon site and it does list a max charge of 56.5 gr, but that's for a Sierra bullet with a a COAL of 3.300".

So proceed with caution.

2) Listed OAL for that bullet is 3.225", not 3.245"

If you are getting the Hornady book today, then what I would do is keep these rounds and just consider them somewhere near the top end of my ladder test. If you want, you can also seat them a little deeper to meet the Hornady book spec (seating the bullet deeper into an already loaded round isn't generally a problem). Unless maybe you used a crimp. Did you use a crimp?

Lastly, why are you measuring in grams instead of grains? Is it because your scale only works in grams?

If so, be very, very careful to make sure you understand the resolution (accuracy) of your scale. If it's only accurate to within .5 grams, that's a discrepancy of more than 7 grains! Even if it's accurate to within .1 grams, you're talking about a difference of 1.5 grains.

Or am I reading your post wrong, and you have a Lee digital scale that's designed for reloading (I assume with .1 gr accuracy) as part of the 'all the associated accessories' part? :)
 
Take the concept of COAL and THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW! The COAL is a worthless measurement. Don't believe me .... measure the OAL of a dozen bullets and you will discover they are all different.

The seating die does not push on the tip of the bullet thus any variation in bullet length will show up as a variation in COAL when the bullet is really seated to the same depth as all the others.

The only way to accurately measure seating depth is with a tool that indexes on the ogive. There are lots of these kinds of tools out there and they are not generally too expensive. In order to measure the distance to the lands on your rifle you will need a Chamber-All tool or something like it. Anything less than these two tools and you are simply guessing at seating depth.
 
Hi. I'm also a noob but, just going strictly by the Hornady 9th Edition manual, I see some discrepancies:

1) For 180 gr InterLock BTSP, Hornady lists the following powder charges for IMR 4350:

* 46.7 gr = 2300 FPS (MIN CHARGE)
* 48.6 gr = 2400 FPS
* 50.6 gr = 2500 FPS
* 52.5 gr = 2600 FPS
* 54.5 gr = 2700 FPS (MAX CHARGE)

I know different sources will present differing load data, but be aware that you are already near the max listed charge listed in the Hornady book.

I took a look at the Hodgdon site and it does list a max charge of 56.5 gr, but that's for a Sierra bullet with a a COAL of 3.300".

So proceed with caution.

2) Listed OAL for that bullet is 3.225", not 3.245"

If you are getting the Hornady book today, then what I would do is keep these rounds and just consider them somewhere near the top end of my ladder test. If you want, you can also seat them a little deeper to meet the Hornady book spec (seating the bullet deeper into an already loaded round isn't generally a problem). Unless maybe you used a crimp. Did you use a crimp?

Lastly, why are you measuring in grams instead of grains? Is it because your scale only works in grams?

If so, be very, very careful to make sure you understand the resolution (accuracy) of your scale. If it's only accurate to within .5 grams, that's a discrepancy of more than 7 grains! Even if it's accurate to within .1 grams, you're talking about a difference of 1.5 grains.

Or am I reading your post wrong, and you have a Lee digital scale that's designed for reloading (I assume with .1 gr accuracy) as part of the 'all the associated accessories' part? :)

Thanks for that! I literally just got back from buying the manual and haven't opened it yet! Based on what you posted (and the Hornady manual), I will decrease my powder for my other loads!
I have used a crimp, so I'm not sure if seating the bullet deeper now will be a problem.

With regards to the powder measurement, I am ultimately measuring in grains. I use a digital scale (in grams) to get me close, then transfer to the Lee balance scale to finish the load off. 53 grains is 3.43 grams, so I measure out 3.3 or 3.4 grams on the digital scale, then trickle in the remaining powder on the Lee balance scale to reach the desired charge. Hope that makes it a bit clearer!

Thanks again for you input, I appreciate it! :)
 
Take the concept of COAL and THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW! The COAL is a worthless measurement. Don't believe me .... measure the OAL of a dozen bullets and you will discover they are all different.

The seating die does not push on the tip of the bullet thus any variation in bullet length will show up as a variation in COAL when the bullet is really seated to the same depth as all the others.

The only way to accurately measure seating depth is with a tool that indexes on the ogive. There are lots of these kinds of tools out there and they are not generally too expensive. In order to measure the distance to the lands on your rifle you will need a Chamber-All tool or something like it. Anything less than these two tools and you are simply guessing at seating depth.

Thanks Suputin, takes some of the pressure off me on making sure the O.A.L is "perfect". I think I'll find a charge that works, then start working in the seating... One thing at a time! haha

Thanks again for the input!
 
Hi. I'm also a noob but, just going strictly by the Hornady 9th Edition manual, I see some discrepancies:

1) For 180 gr InterLock BTSP, Hornady lists the following powder charges for IMR 4350:

* 46.7 gr = 2300 FPS (MIN CHARGE)
* 48.6 gr = 2400 FPS
* 50.6 gr = 2500 FPS
* 52.5 gr = 2600 FPS
* 54.5 gr = 2700 FPS (MAX CHARGE)

I know different sources will present differing load data, but be aware that you are already near the max listed charge listed in the Hornady book.

I took a look at the Hodgdon site and it does list a max charge of 56.5 gr, but that's for a Sierra bullet with a a COAL of 3.300".

So proceed with caution.

2) Listed OAL for that bullet is 3.225", not 3.245"

If you are getting the Hornady book today, then what I would do is keep these rounds and just consider them somewhere near the top end of my ladder test. If you want, you can also seat them a little deeper to meet the Hornady book spec (seating the bullet deeper into an already loaded round isn't generally a problem). Unless maybe you used a crimp. Did you use a crimp?

Lastly, why are you measuring in grams instead of grains? Is it because your scale only works in grams?

If so, be very, very careful to make sure you understand the resolution (accuracy) of your scale. If it's only accurate to within .5 grams, that's a discrepancy of more than 7 grains! Even if it's accurate to within .1 grams, you're talking about a difference of 1.5 grains.

Or am I reading your post wrong, and you have a Lee digital scale that's designed for reloading (I assume with .1 gr accuracy) as part of the 'all the associated accessories' part? :)

Heavy tread, the figures you quote from the Hornady book are far removed from the real world figures that I have chronographed.
My figures are from an Oehler chronograph, which is very accurate. I was using two different 30-06 rifles and there was about 75 fps difference between the two. Using 180 grain bullets and IMR4350, here are some five shot readings from the rifle that always gave the highest readings.
Bear in mind that 2700 fps with 180 grain bullets is always considered the figure the 30-06 was developed for over a century ago.
My readings, quoted here, were made on Aug. 20, 1991 and the temperature was 90 degrees f. (about 28C)

55 grains--4350-- 2488 fps.
56 grains--4350-- 2614 fps
57 grains--4350-- 2688 fps
58 grains--4350-- 2731 fps----As a point of interest, this same load, 58 grains, in my Husqvarna rifle, which always averaged les velocity than the Remington that made the figures quoted, was only 2642 fps in the Husqvarna with 58 grains of IMR4350. Neither rifle showed any signs, whatsoever, of excess pressure.
 
There's no magic formula for how a given load will work in any particular rifle. You could even take a good load in one rifle and shoot it in another rifle (same make/model) and get different results. Then shoot it on a hot day and get different results again.

Re. OAL...measuring off the ogive gives a consistent reference dimension with which to measure things since the tips of bullets will vary...both between brands and even between bullets out of the same box. Take a couple of your bullets and measure them tip to base...how many of them are exactly the same? Some brands/makes are very consistent...others are less so.

Published COAL lengths may be more important for a lever/semi/pump gun than they are for a bolt action. One thing you may find is that the best OAL length for your load/gun combination may not fit you magazine...and if that's important for you then you may be "stuck" with loading to a certain length.

You may want to ream your primer pockets. This establishes a set depth of the primer pocket, squares the base of the pock with the base of the case and cleans out variations. Ultimately it helps you with seating primers evenly and flush to the base of the pocket and they should be just slightly recessed from the base of the case. Reaming out a reamed pocket just cleans out crud...and if you find a pocket where it's not being cut/reamed at all, then it'll identify a case with a pocket that is too deep.

Eventually, maybe sooner than later depending on your loads, you'll need to trim your cases and debur the case mouth.

One thing to keep in mind...if you're working up loads now, be sure to "start over" safely when the weather gets warmer. A max hot load now might be dangerously too hot when it's 35C out and the sun is beating down on you.

Starting with safe published specs is never a bad thing...but eventually you'll probably find yourself outside of them re. OAL/max load/etc... That's ok as long as you've approached it carefully, understand what you're doing and are observant on the early signs of too much pressure/case wear.
 
There's no magic formula for how a given load will work in any particular rifle. You could even take a good load in one rifle and shoot it in another rifle (same make/model) and get different results. Then shoot it on a hot day and get different results again.

Re. OAL...measuring off the ogive gives a consistent reference dimension with which to measure things since the tips of bullets will vary...both between brands and even between bullets out of the same box. Take a couple of your bullets and measure them tip to base...how many of them are exactly the same? Some brands/makes are very consistent...others are less so.

Published COAL lengths may be more important for a lever/semi/pump gun than they are for a bolt action. One thing you may find is that the best OAL length for your load/gun combination may not fit you magazine...and if that's important for you then you may be "stuck" with loading to a certain length.

You may want to ream your primer pockets. This establishes a set depth of the primer pocket, squares the base of the pock with the base of the case and cleans out variations. Ultimately it helps you with seating primers evenly and flush to the base of the pocket and they should be just slightly recessed from the base of the case. Reaming out a reamed pocket just cleans out crud...and if you find a pocket where it's not being cut/reamed at all, then it'll identify a case with a pocket that is too deep.

Eventually, maybe sooner than later depending on your loads, you'll need to trim your cases and debur the case mouth.

One thing to keep in mind...if you're working up loads now, be sure to "start over" safely when the weather gets warmer. A max hot load now might be dangerously too hot when it's 35C out and the sun is beating down on you.

Starting with safe published specs is never a bad thing...but eventually you'll probably find yourself outside of them re. OAL/max load/etc... That's ok as long as you've approached it carefully, understand what you're doing and are observant on the early signs of too much pressure/case wear.

Thanks for the reply m102404! My first work with my new press was to deprime & full length size, trim & debur and reaming out the primer pocket.... It just felt weird loading the pre-primed shells without going through the initial steps!

With regards to O.A.L., for the bulk of my shooting (range), I am not too concerned with being able to load the rounds in a magazine. I will be looking to work on confidence and accuracy, as well as dialing in a load that works well for me and the rifle. Come hunting season in October though, I will want a load with a O.A.L. that will fit in the magazine.

Looks like I will just need to reload and shoot a lot! :)

Thanks again for your input!
 
Nice looking reloads there. Myself and CGN member .Ben have been avid realoders since 18. We started with just 9mm, and now we are into .30-06, .303, 9mm, .44 mag, 500 S&W and .223. It is very addictive!
 
Some of my thoughts which might help you regarding workflow differences:

- I don't separate by case weight or headstamp
- COAL is a useful measure to not pass, you want to make sure the round will chamber in a magazine, if applicable. Make up a dummy round (brass + bullet, no primer and no powder) to try out.
- Balance beam is (relatively) cheap and simple, and easy to check. I'm still thinking about getting a chargemaster but wouldn't get a cheap electronic scale.
- I don't crimp rifle rounds unless the bullet has a cannelure
- ALWAYS check powder levels after loading before putting a bullet on. A small flashlight is handy, or really good lighting.
- Recommend always to chamfer at least the inside of the neck, just a bit is fine. This helps when seating bullet.
- Spend more time on case prep than loading.
- I got a stainless steel pin tumbler, it makes the sonic and media-based cleaners look like I wasted money. Shiny, clean brass.
- Invest in a decapping die.
- Never, ever test finished cartridges at home for 'fit' in a firearm. Use a dummy round.

Process I am currently following, always on batches of 50 or less:

Decap
SS tumble, 1.5 hrs is fine
Dry, usually at least a day
Sizing die (full, neck or what have you)
Chamfer mouth
Prime
Add powder to all cartridges
Check powder levels w/ small bore flashlight
Check them again :)
Re-check the powder is correct for the cartridge and bullet weight, and that I used the correct charge. Fixing a problem at this step is easy enough.
If everything was done correctly, seating the bullets really only takes a few minutes. Check OAL first 5 or so, rest no need.
Ensure I labelled the batch with cartridge/intended firearm, charge powder and weight, OAL.
Make sure logbook has this load recorded.
 
Heavy tread, the figures you quote from the Hornady book are far removed from the real world figures that I have chronographed

Interesting.. I did note to myself while I was typing that up that the FPS started on the low side for 30-06.

I strongly suspect the load data published in books like the Hornady manual has a wide margin of safety and errs deliberately on side of being conservative.

I still think that published load data like that is the best place for beginners like OP (and myself) to start. Given that we're prone to making dumb mistakes, that wide margin of safety is going to come in handy from time to time..

My readings, quoted here, were made on Aug. 20, 1991

LOL, I think I was just discovering girls around about that time, not reloading. I'll spare you my detailed notes on the matter. ;)
 
Based on all the great input everyone has provided, I made the following changes;
- went through an used all Winchester brass
- adjusted my charge weights (53, 50.6 47ish) based on the Hornady 9th edition. Figured it was a place to start!

Thanks again for the input, I truly appreciate it!
 
Last edited:
Be very careful with the FCD die. For curiousity sake you should pull one of your made bullets to verify that the crimp isn't deforming/re-shaping the contour of your bullet. My little expierience with this die is that if you can see marks on the brass you have gone to far.

Welcome to the reloading club, you will soon see it is more fun than the shooting
 
You really need to use just one brand of primer. It can change the load, but not by much. Use Hodgdon's data too.

The only reason I am testing the loads with more than one primer is because the 425 brass that I bought came pre-primed with them... Figured that loading, firing and testing both wouldn't be a bad thing! :)

Also, I let the Hornady manual scare me a bit with regards to the max load in comparison to the Lee Modern Reloading Manual loads.... I think I might do an additional load about the 53 grains I already have... thoughts?
 
Last edited:
The only reason I am testing the loads with more than one primer is because the 425 brass that I bought came pre-primed with them... Figured that loading, firing and testing both wouldn't be a bad thing! :)

Also, I let the Hornady manual scare me a bit with regards to the max load in comparison to the Lee Modern Reloading Manual loads.... I think I might do an additional load about the 53 grains I already have... thoughts?

How often do you get to shoot?

I ask because, for my first set of loads, I just went through all the prep steps, picked the minimum of the listed charge weights for my chosen bullet, built myself about 20 rounds with a number of different bullets seated to the listed OAL, and called it a night.

My goal with that first batch was simply to get rounds downrange without winding up with parts of my rifle embedded in my face. Now I've run through the cycle of prep and shoot a few times, now I'm starting to feel confident in trying out other things and will be going out to do my first ladder test tomorrow with two different powders and four different bullet types.

That's for my .223. I recently acquired a .308 that I'll be loading for tonight for the first time, and those initial loads are going to be the minimums straight out of the book.

If you're nervous about it, why not just do that? Forget about all this accuracy and consistency business for now-- just load up some rounds with parameters right from a trusted source, say your Hornady manual, and get past your hesitation about squeezing the trigger on something you assembled at home. Carefully examine each case as you extract it for signs of pressure (there almost certainly won't be any with that starting charge) and think to yourself 'I HAVE MADE AMMO'.

Later on you'll realize that it wasn't such a big deal and you'll feel much more confident about it. You'll also have a rock solid safe starting load (well, two-- one for each primer :) ) from which to start incrementally working up.

Just a suggestion. That's what I did (and am still doing). I sometimes wonder if some of the salty dogs around here have forgotten how scary it was to pop their cherry on their first reloads.
 
Back
Top Bottom