Handgun Holster, what are they used for? (in canada)

[Onagoth]

The vast majority of handgun owners are not "totally untrained". Most have either taken a restricted firearms safety course or passed a test proving proficiency with restricted firearms.

While the RPAL course/exam doesn't cover holsters (to my knowledge), it does cover the most important rule involving holsters....keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target

 

[hercster]

The vast majority of handgun owners are not "totally untrained". Most have either taken a restricted firearms safety course or passed a test proving proficiency with restricted firearms.

While the RPAL course/exam doesn't cover holsters (to my knowledge), it does cover the most important rule involving holsters....keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target

Again, when I talked about the "untrained group" I was speaking about here in the US where there is no mandatory training whatever and minimal required for a CCW in most states. I think I made reference to the restricted course in an earlier post. You and I know that 80 % of that course is drivel. However I do know I learned from it and don't regret the knowledge.

When I got my drivers license, almost nobody took lessons. I learned from my dad which was not a delightful experience. I actually failed my first test because I couldn't parallel park very well. Then I did take a couple of hours training from a professional and passed. That was 53 years ago.

When my sons wanted their licenses they had to take courses which as I recall were available through the high school. I don't think either of them is a better driver than I am now but they sure were better in their first years of driving.

As I recall, we both started shooting in IPSC around the same time and I know we have mutual acquaintances in the areas where we live. Were we better and safer shooters five years ago after the various courses we both took including the BB? You betcha!!

 

[stevebc]

We are told to use our holsters when the gun is not in use. If you don't that you would have to walk up to your target with it in your hands. If you leave it at the firing line it is now unsecured. Technically you would have to lock it up and secure it if it is not on your person. Not loaded and not drawing from it. As long as it is not loaded I don't see a problem.

This pretty much describes my situation. I'm not comfortable leaving my pistol on the line when I change targets, so I use a cheap holster. I'm not against training if you're doing IPSC/IDPA/Cowboy Action, but other than those disciplines, it's just a carrying device. Thankfully, my club doesn't have rules for/against holsters.

 

[hercster]

This pretty much describes my situation. I'm not comfortable leaving my pistol on the line when I change targets, so I use a cheap holster. I'm not against training if you're doing IPSC/IDPA/Cowboy Action, but other than those disciplines, it's just a carrying device. Thankfully, my club doesn't have rules for/against holsters.

I shoot Steel Challenge here in Texas. I always use holsters because I'm more comfortable with them than not. A lot of SC shooters use rim fire pistols and don't have holsters for them. So the rules here require those shooters to take their pistols to the line unloaded in a bag. Then when they are finished and show clear, they bag the gun before coming back up range. I shoot with the same people all the time and so even at practice sessions we are self policing. One of us acts as an RO unloads and holsters shooters that have them and bags for the others. Without this rule in place, I've seen too many inexperienced shooters carrying guns back up range with very sloppy muzzle control. Most if not all of this is common sense and not hard to comply with.

 

[Sharps '63]

Exactly the point. The RPAL teaches you just enough about handguns to be dangerous - both to your self and others.

We have indoor shooting during the week at our "General Handgun" night. The attitude and conduct of those who are IPSC/CAS trained shooters is obvious. The untrained bozos know how to load the gun - period. They walk away from the firing line with gun in hand or holstered, fiddle with their guns during cease fires while people are downrange, etc. If you speak to them about it, you get - "Well, it isn't even loaded, so what's the problem?"

Result - no holsters unless you are a known IPSC/CAS shooter and some one-on-one supervision from knowledgeable, trained people. Don't like it - go home.

Some of the greatest offenders are "trained" LEO's, people that carry guns on a daily basis. A club member and I arrived at our rifle range to find an RCMP type "training" two Auxiliaries. He was a club member, they were unpaid 'guests'. They were well ahead of the line which effectively shut down the range and contrary to club rules. I pointed out that we had a 100m pistol range just yards away only to be blown off with "We're just about done."
Minutes later, he walked back from the target, LOADING his 9mm as he walked towards us! That tore it and I ordered him off the range immediately. He did so with attitude. Had he not done so, a letter would have been sent to the NCO/IC of the Detachment about the incident.

At our "General Handgun" night, LEO's are told that unless they are on shift (in which case, why are they there?) they do NOT arrive with loaded, holstered guns. When they rent the range, their rules apply.

This is the sort of behaviour we are trying to pre-empt before a Coroner's Inquest asks the questions. The general public has even less "training" and experience than the average LEO and their gun handling shows it. Some may feel that requiring a standard of safety is a violation of their rights. That's their problem. Like I said earlier, we aren't concerned about your ego or macho self image as a gun handler.

The vast majority of handgun owners are not "totally untrained". Most have either taken a restricted firearms safety course or pased a test proving proficiency with restricted firearms.
While the RPAL course/exam doesn't cover holsters (to my knowledge), it does cover the most important rule involving holsters....keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target

 

[fenceline]

This part always bugged me. Qualified by whom? How hard is it to put a gun in a holster? If I am qualified to own a restricted, I am qualified to wear one in a holster. This is just another example of one select group of firearms owners screwing over another. Join our little club or you don't get to wear your pistol on your belt.

Tex Grebner.

At the end of the day clubs are owned by private businesses and non-profit associations. Owners and directors of such have the obligation by law to ensure the safe operation and use of their facilities. This is why they have rules and standards to ensure they don't get held civilly or criminally liable for negligent operation of the facility.

Different ranges. Different rules. Vote with your dollars.

 

[flyrrad]

I like what Moose308 said above^^^^^^^ That's how I feel in a nutshell

Why? Doesn't take rocket science to pass the restricted course..... doesn't take rocket science (maybe) to draw from a holster.... but what about the tards with 5 thumbs that like to pretend they are playing video games with live ammo?? I feel better knowing that these kinda people have to pass a safety course to wear a holstered weapon at the range. Especially if that firearm has a mag full of live ammo in it. Call me "lover of life" but I'd rather not lose mine cuz some xbox nerd who plays too much CALL OF DUTY wanna play guns!

Just my 3.5 cents (thats due to inflation).... don't really care about the rebuttals, I have shoulders like Shrek.

 

[Sharps '63]

There is NO rebuttal of safety concerns.

 

[hercster]

I shot in a major Carbine match yesterday. I say major because 150 shooters come from all over Texas and a few other states near by.

One of the guys on my squad is a 24-year veteran on the city's police force. He's an excellent shooter, an RO and super safe. We were chatting yesterday about LEO's and shooting. He himself told stories of his SWAT guys coming to the range and getting their clocks cleaned by competition shooters. In his opinion, many on the force of 300 are barely competent.

Before the match, the match director read the general safety rules. The range was to be "cold"; no loaded guns including spectators with their CCW. He made a point of emphasizing that this included LEO's as we have quite a few who come to our events. Last year an LEO had to be ejected from the range for handling his service pistol in an unsafe manner.

It's too bad that the LEO group gets trashed a lot. For too many of them, the pistol is just another tool on their belts and they treat it casually. When they come to the clubs to join the game guys and gals, some of them have to unlearn years of bad habits.

 

[TheWharGoul]

There is NO rebuttal of safety concerns.

So if you see one deal with it.

No wonder we are in the situation we are in, you're going to need a course to wipe your own ass pretty soon.
I drew from a holster for three years before taking my BB, and by that time we flew through the hands-on portion because I already knew how to safely draw/mag change etc. Assuming everyone is an idiot and dangerous is why we have the restrictive laws we do. Seriously, this community is astounding.

 

[Onagoth]

So if you see one deal with it.

No wonder we are in the situation we are in, you're going to need a course to wipe your own ass pretty soon.
I drew from a holster for three years before taking my BB, and by that time we flew through the hands-on portion because I already knew how to safely draw/mag change etc. Assuming everyone is an idiot and dangerous is why we have the restrictive laws we do. Seriously, this community is astounding.

Yep...I really didn't get much out of the BB course. I had been shooting extensively for sometime before even taking it. It was still fun, but totally unnecessary.

Now for those who voluntarily want to take a BB course, I say all the power to you. I have no problem with voluntary training and development. But when I'm told I must do something before someone knows anyhting about me, well, thats when I take exception.

 

[hercster]

Ya know life's a beach and then you're dead. The courses are a qualifier and a standard for many reasons including an insurance or liability requirement for the club. Try renting a helicopter without proof of competence. Don't get upset just because they don't take your word for it despite you being a self-proclaimed wizard and incredibly handsome or cute. It's an imperfect world for most of us. My personal policy is to suck it up and move on; often I'm pleasantly surprised. Oh and BTW, life is incredibly short. Don't waste time fighting what you can't control as much as you would like to.

 

[Gofast240]

This may be a bit off topic but the thread has touched on what I need. I've been shooting handgun for years now, no formal training, however we are starting to shoot as a family, and have a 14 year old. I would be very interested in taking some formal training with them to teach the the proper way of handling and holstering. Any one have info on course in the Okanagan of BC.

Cheers

Yep...I really didn't get much out of the BB course. I had been shooting extensively for sometime before even taking it. It was still fun, but totally unnecessary.

Now for those who voluntarily want to take a BB course, I say all the power to you. I have no problem with voluntary training and development. But when I'm told I must do something before someone knows anyhting about me, well, thats when I take exception.

 

[Can-down]

This may be a bit off topic but the thread has touched on what I need. I've been shooting handgun for years now, no formal training, however we are starting to shoot as a family, and have a 14 year old. I would be very interested in taking some formal training with them to teach the the proper way of handling and holstering. Any one have info on course in the Okanagan of BC.

Cheers

Not to discourage payed training, however if you think about it, and practice the same safety rules you already should know.... it's pretty basic.

Muzzle direction control.
Trigger finger discipline.

It's not that complicated.

Practice with unloaded guns and snap caps with your family and monitor and correct bad form so everyone develops safe habits.

 

[Avenida]

a little rant about safety courses.

the idea behind a bb course is to make sure everybody is dealing with/under the same standards. It takes one mistake to hurt yourself or others.

For instance, 'Acts and Prove' was invented/designed as a pattern to be followed and handle any firearm safely as long as you follow the pattern you should be fine. The fact that is resumed in an anachronism makes it easier for most people to learn & remember, hence, remembered and followed until it becomes 2nd nature. The moment you brake 1 or more steps... well...you know the rest.

Having 'ACTS AND PROVE' is nothing more than a standard. Same with a BB course or similar.

Some people might require more practice than others, it is just matter of knowing WHAT to practice and HOW to do it properly, until it becomes 2nd nature.
Practicing at home with no supervision is no guarantee that you are safe holstering or unholstering, sorry, but if you come from the internet I don't want to shoot with you, period.

It is very annoying to see others at the range not respecting others' lives, for instance: walking with a loaded rifle pointing up/down in a public range not only is poor etiquette but also shows your lack of respect peoples' lives.
I have seen it numerous times, magazine loaded, walking around like they were SWAT. Lame.

It is nerve wracking, what if you stumble and accidentally discharge your weapon? #### happens, and that is why we have standards to keep SH!T to a minimum.
I just want to have fun and I don't want to worry about the guy shooting next to me, that is all.

Respect others, if you wanna play rambo drive to the middle of nowhere and knock yourself out.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of unsafe shooters and will always be. One of the reasons I just shoot at the range with people I know.

 

[Can-down]

Practicing at home with no supervision is no guarantee that you are safe holstering or unholstering, sorry, but if you come from the internet I don't want to shoot with you, period.

True, there are no guarantees.

Today most people's phones will record high def moving images so a keener could even watch his technique with video review to look for safety issues.

It's about repetition of good basics and that can be done at home anytime with a bit of applied technology and intelligence.

 

[mini15]

I'm always amazed at how dumb some Ontarians are - the entire rest of the country reports no real issues without a holster course (and a whole bunch of other officious sounding crap) but an apparently large section of the Ontario community unleashes mayhem by using a holster without first being "qualified".

100% Agree. It's a joke. It's more dangerous driving to the range then being surrounded by first timers using holsters.

 

[enefgee]

It strikes me that the reason you folks are so paranoid is that your facilities must suck. It's sounds like you're jammed in on top of one another, shooting pistols on ranges not designed for pistols, with little to no separation between shooting points. It's one of the reasons I probably wouldn't bother with an indoor range, if there was one here. Standard old fashioned square rifle ranges are not of any real use to hand gunners. I know there are very few ranges out there with a reasonable berm, which adds to more difficulties - maybe it's time for shooting clubs in Ontario to get their act together and build decent facilities, so that shooters of all types can use their firearms without being buried in rules designed to compensate for the facilities' inadequacy

 

[Avenida]

The fact that I live in Ontario says nothing about who I am, so for those claiming that ONTARIANS this or that:I was not born or raised in this country. I just apply common sense for my safety and the safety of others.
For those wanting to shoot with un-educated people, go at it, we are not arguing that. The fact that you follow a standard makes you safer, period. Some people sweep themselves all the time, others don't even WITH ZERO training. Some people are good at playing soccer, others are not. See the trend?


It always amazes me how Canadians cross an intersection when the 'walk' light turns on, you guys do it without even looking to see if the car crossing the intersection had stopped or not. You guys assume EVERY TIME that the car WILL stop, because the light is red for them, so there is NO WAY in earth, the driver could have made a mistake. This happens in winter time, with slippery roads even on the worst snowy day. A-MA-ZING.

In South America, if you don't look before crossing the intersection, you die. PERIOD.

You can't assume everybody is safe, that is RETARDED. Never go full retard.

This thread is a good example of why I avoid ranges on Sundays, lol. Because we DO have a lot of stupid rules (like someone said) and still, the range is full of ass hats...

Go figure!

 

[Gofast240]

The reason I love our small town rages, any day you go 75 % of the time you are the only people there. It sounds like you need to shoot during the week in Ont, that kind of sucks.

The fact that I live in Ontario says nothing about who I am, so for those claiming that ONTARIANS this or that:I was not born or raised in this country. I just apply common sense for my safety and the safety of others.
For those wanting to shoot with un-educated people, go at it, we are not arguing that. The fact that you follow a standard makes you safer, period. Some people sweep themselves all the time, others don't even WITH ZERO training. Some people are good at playing soccer, others don't. See the trend?


It always amazes me how Canadian cross an intersection when the 'walk' light turns on, you guys do it without even looking if the car at the red light had stopped. You guys assume EVERY TIME, the car will stop, because the light is red for them, so there is NO WAY in earth, the driver could have made a mistake...In South America, if you don't look before crossing the intersection, you die. PERIOD.

You can't assume everybody is safe, that is RETARDED. Never go full retard.

This thread is a good example of why I avoid ranges on Sundays, lol. Because we DO have a lot of stupid rules (like someone said) and still, the range is full of ass hats...

Go figure!