Load Development - Help Wanted

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CourtenayBoy

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I have gone through 1/2 grain increments seated .050 off the lands with a 160 grain Barnes TSX to the maximum stated charge of 58 grains IMR 4831. I am not totally satisfied with what I have so far. I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. I am a new loader, so to push it any higher is something I think I'll wait for. I haven't noticed anything as far as high pressure goes...at least I don't think I have. This is a load for my Tikka T3 Lite in 7mm rem mag and will be my go to hunting rig. I am ok if it only shoots MOA at 100 yards, but would like better. I don't know what I should do next as I definitely want the higher velocity to go with the accuracy. Barnes says 2791 fps at max charge. I don't own a chrony so have no idea how fast mine are. Thanks for any help/advice you can lend. I am all ears

Thank you kindly

Mike

 
Looks like 53.5gr IMR4891 is your tightest group.

A few things could be affecting accuracy:

- Shooter error
- Parallax error
- Cant error
- Barrel not fully free floated when under load
- Bullet and/or powder combo
 
You could also try going less powder as long as it's in spec if your at the max recommended you can always go down instead of up I find the middle has the best results for most loading data.

Faster isn't always better.
 
I got the best velocity and accuracy from several 7 Mags using IMR 7828 and 160 Parts, W-W brass and CCI 250s. Also try changing your seating depth .020 both ways and see if there is a noticeable difference. I'm not sure where your data comes from but I have shot up to 68 gns of H4831 behind a 160 in several rifles, this load was listed back in the old Speer #7 manual as good and safe, back in the 70s. Of course you don't want to jump up there without working up, and IMR is not exactly the same but I'd still be starting about 63 grns and working up from there.
 
c-fbmi said:
I got the best velocity and accuracy from several 7 Mags using IMR 7828 and 160 Parts, W-W brass and CCI 250s. Also try changing your seating depth .020 both ways and see if there is a noticeable difference. I'm not sure where your data comes from but I have shot up to 68 gns of H4831 behind a 160 in several rifles, this load was listed back in the old Speer #7 manual as good and safe, back in the 70s. Of course you don't want to jump up there without working up, and IMR is not exactly the same but I'd still be starting about 63 grns and working up from there.
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thank you. I got the data from Barnes #4
 
You didn't mention how you measured your distance off the lands. Are measuring COAL at the tip or the ogive with a comparator. If you are measuring at the tip, your distance of the lands will vary. Also, did you fire form your brass first before load development? What is your case prep regiment? (uniform primer pocket, flash hole debur etc). Your rifle may prefer a different bullet as well.

A few small things could add up and make the difference.
 
Kinda hard to offer advice over the web.... Don't ya think.
I don't know anything about your abilities as a shooter.
I have never seen the rifle, your bench set up or your loading set up too.
Maybe it's a case of your rifle not liking the bullet.

Get another experienced shooter to give you some in person advice.
 
Tikka Tips from my experience:

lets assume your scope is tight, and your technique is good, you have decent glass, you're not flinching, and you have a steady rest - as previously mentioned.

1) Take your rifle apart and look at the recoil lug - if you see 'peening' on the lug, thats telling you the action is moving, and you will get results (groups) like you did. Remedy? Bed it.

2) Also, that amount of shots, make sure the barrel doesn't heat up. Put a limbsaver on - that gun kicks!

3) As for the load itself, to me, on your targets, there may be two nodes - but i would find the three groups that hit the paper in the same spot, and take the middle load and try tighter increments. Seat to recommended length/mag length. i would work with the 54 gr and also try the 56 gr.

4) If you can, try 200 or 300 yds for groups - if you're using VLDs they may not be stabilized at 100. I had much better luck with 160 accubonds, and even better with 140 NAB. NONE shot under 1-1/2" Maybe try a ladder test.

5) Seat to SAAMI length, remember T3 MOA guarantee is for factory ammo, they (Stoeger) told me no guarantees for reloads. After 1000 ish rounds thru my (5) T3's, i did find they shot best at SAAMI lengths. You are asking for the 'moon' for repeatable MOA in that gun/caliber, IMHO....its not a target/match rifle, its a lightweight hunting rifle. The big thing i like about T3's is that cold bore shots were all bang on where they should be. After all, its the first shot that counts!

Again, check the lug. You will be surprised at what you see.
 
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If your stuck on only using Barnes bullets then try a lighter bullet maybe 140 grain, but if your stuck on using 160 grain bullets then try a different brand maybe Nosler BT or AB as they seem to shoot very well in anything I have ever tried them in.
 
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I'm with c-fbmi on his suggested loads. I have never seen a 7mm Rem Mag that would not digest 62-63 grains of IMR 4831 behind a 160 grain bullet safely, so I would move up discreetly.

Barnes generally works best with a bit of "jump" to the lands, so you can try moving your bullet seating spec a bit.

Also, a change in powder is a good thing to try. Reloder 22 and IMR 7828 have always been top performers for me in the big 7. [H1000 and Reloder 25 also work in some applications]

Make sure your bench technique is not giving you erratic results. Make sure guard screws are torqued properly.

Regards, Dave.
 
Be careful going up higher than barnes recommends. The TSX\TTSX are much longer than a nosler partition. I would be trying H1000 next, as I like a little higher load density than the 85% that IMR 4831 gives.
 
Riverboy said:
Be careful going up higher than barnes recommends. The TSX\TTSX are much longer than a nosler partition. I would be trying H1000 next, as I like a little higher load density than the 85% that IMR 4831 gives.
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Yes, they are longer, but have less bearing surface overall, due to the grooves cut in the bullet.
Nosler E-Tip are a bit different. [No grooves]

Max loads in rifles I am using are not much different between the C&C bullets and the Barnes.

Regards, Dave.
 
chrismc said:
Tikka Tips from my experience:



5) Seat to SAAMI length, remember T3 MOA guarantee is for factory ammo, they (Stoeger) told me no guarantees for reloads. After 1000 ish rounds thru my (5) T3's, i did find they shot best at SAAMI lengths. You are asking for the 'moon' for repeatable MOA in that gun/caliber, IMHO....its not a target/match rifle, its a lightweight hunting rifle. The big thing i like about T3's is that cold bore shots were all bang on where they should be. After all, its the first shot that counts!
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With many Sako and Tikka rifles, I have also found this. I don't even bother doing the measure to the lands thing anymore, I start at SAAMI length and then only go to work if I can't find a load.

Hasn't happened yet.

Try Reloder 22, I have gotten my best results with most cartridges in that range with RE22.
 
C B

How many minutes or seconds between shots fired. I like to use 3 shot groups when I do load development. The most important shot is the first one. Could your barrel is getting pretty warm on shots 4 and 5. How often are you cleaning your rifle. FS
 
Let your own rifle tell you where max is with that particular mix of components.. My opinion.

Many/most of mine have done their best just below that one individual gun's actual comfortable max. The high node. That is often 1-3 grains below first pressure signs, in my experience.

Not suggesting imprudence or haste. Am suggesting to let your rifle tell you what it wants. Move up in small increments.
Hot weather needs to be on your radar, if you developed to max in colder temps.

Try Reloder 22, I have gotten my best results with most cartridges in that range with RE22.
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An excellent high vel., and accurate, powder. My go to standby. It is a bit temp sensetive, for example, 6.5x55 needs 1/2-1 grain charge reduction from -20 to +25C.
 
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Fassteel said:
C B

How many minutes or seconds between shots fired. I like to use 3 shot groups when I do load development. The most important shot is the first one. Could your barrel is getting pretty warm on shots 4 and 5. How often are you cleaning your rifle. FS
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3 shots, let cool, then 4 and 5 back to back. I cleaned the rifle after the last range session and fired 3 foulers through before I got serious.

I have no idea on velocity as I don't have a chrony. I will say I went up another half grain to 59.5 today and the group tightened up a bit more (0.886) and recoil is getting quite stout! I still have no signs of high pressure that I can tell. I also went to 60 grains but it opened back up.....shooter error I believe, as I know on 2 shots I was just off target when I squeezed off (few curses were spoken)
 
Looking at your last groups I'd say you are finding a good load and you're getting more comfortable shooting your rifle.

Often I find while handloading assuming the rifles bedding is proper if accuracy is just so so after working up loads I'll often change powders or bullets. Often it's simply the fact that a rifle wants a different bullet or a powder of a different burn rate. Every rifle is different and every rifle will tell you what it likes with a little experimenting.

I'd say you and your gun are shooting very well for what you intend to do with it ,hunting. As long as the first shot goes where you intend it to every time does it really matter if the 4th and 5th start to open up the group?

Either way a 7mm will drop whatever you shoot with it, especially at 100 yards.

Good shooting and it's great to hear that yet another CGN'er is "rolling their own"
 
Tinman204 said:
Looking at your last groups I'd say you are finding a good load and you're getting more comfortable shooting your rifle.

Often I find while handloading assuming the rifles bedding is proper if accuracy is just so so after working up loads I'll often change powders or bullets. Often it's simply the fact that a rifle wants a different bullet or a powder of a different burn rate. Every rifle is different and every rifle will tell you what it likes with a little experimenting.

I'd say you and your gun are shooting very well for what you intend to do with it ,hunting. As long as the first shot goes where you intend it to every time does it really matter if the 4th and 5th start to open up the group?

Either way a 7mm will drop whatever you shoot with it, especially at 100 yards.

Good shooting and it's great to hear that yet another CGN'er is "rolling their own"
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Tinman, great to hear from you. I hope that old turk mauser I sent you is getting good use.

I am really enjoying my new Tikka and working up a load for her. I do wish powder was more available as my choice is very limited. That said, ill happily hunt with this load and I think you may be right, I am getting to know my rifle. This trigger breaks really nice and crisp and is quite light. I have not found a need to adjust it from whatever the factory setting is. Ill play a bit more with it and see where I end up.

Cheers

Mike
 
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