Bedding action had an unintended side effect.

Recoil is not only the fore/aft movement but there is the twisting or torque as a byproduct of the bullet trying to spin the rifle.

If there is a gap on the sides of a lug, how will the lug control the torque?

If there is a gap on the front of the lug, how will it control the rebound of the action? Can be really pronounced in braked rifles of large chamberings.

It can't ... so that energy has to move somewhere and the next victim is the action bolts. Not designed as load bearing devices but they will hold for a bit. Then they will wear into the stock or bend or stretch or do things not positive for consistent accuracy.

For guns that see thousands of rounds in a season, that pounding is going to show up in parts. I want an interference fit so there is no movement in these parts. The energy is transmitted through the lug, bedding then stock. Nothing can move if strong enough. The bedding then lasts a very long time.

I also do not bother using some torque wrench on the action bolts. With proper bedding and pillars, there is no compression or stretching of the metal bits. The bolts bottom out snug and that is all they need to do. They only need to be tight enough so they do not loosen with recoil. That is just a hand snug.

Bedding controls all the recoil forces when mated with a properly shaped and appropriately strong lug. That is why it's there in the first place.

The generic Rem shaped recoil lug can lead to shaving the bedding cause it is a lousy design and shape. Far better the taper lug. Little to no chance of shaving using these if the rifle is reinstalled properly.

I can't solve bad handling...

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
Bedding is not flat and you were flexing the action when you tightened down the bolts. This caused the bolt to bind in the action.

Very common with many factory stocks. To test, just loosen the rear bolt and run the bolt.

Some you can feel the action bend as you tighten, loosen the action bolt. Some you can see bending the action.

Proper bedding levels this out so the action has to sit properly and hopefully straight. Bolt then travels properly through the action.

Simple but not always understood....

Jerry
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I find that a lot of bolt action rifles in wooden stock and factory bedding will shoot a lot better if you loosen the rear screw so it is not real tight and that relieves the twisting or bending pressure of an uneven bedding job. the front screw must be tight.
 
guntech said:
I don't think there is any one 'best' way. I do prefer wrapping the barrel with masking tape until the barrel is held centered in the stock supporting the action level in the stock. I have two long headless action Allan screws very slightly tapered in the action. No trigger in place. The bottom metal taped in place. These long screws center the action where it should be in relationship to the bottom metal. I often have to mill a little clearance on the recoil lug area as often it holds the action too far forward and the action screws bind. When the barreled action with the masking tape and the screws goes in the stock with the bottom metal easily and lies there level, it is ready to glass bed. I always have one layer of tape on the front, sides and bottom of the recoil lug before I apply *Johnson's paste wax as a release agent.

After the bedding has cured the long headless action screws are removed first, then the barreled action easily lifts out.

* $6 for a large can in the US. Lasts for many years of professional use. Shoe wax will perform well too. Better than the release agents offered by the companies.
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This is the way I do my bedding and have had good success!
 
swissinn said:
I have DG's 30-338 Lapua and that is what it feels like. You could literally shoot it without action screws, its that snug. Best bedding job I've ever seen.
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I have seen better! I will get better every time I do one. My secret though is a special binding agent that I ad to the Epoxy it involves Viper (aka The Greek) and a sheep it's a dirty job but it's worth it! LMAO!
 
Mystic Precision said:
Recoil is not only the fore/aft movement but there is the twisting or torque as a byproduct of the bullet trying to spin the rifle.

If there is a gap on the sides of a lug, how will the lug control the torque?

If there is a gap on the front of the lug, how will it control the rebound of the action? Can be really pronounced in braked rifles of large chamberings.

It can't ... so that energy has to move somewhere and the next victim is the action bolts. Not designed as load bearing devices but they will hold for a bit. Then they will wear into the stock or bend or stretch or do things not positive for consistent accuracy.

Jerry
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It is really hard to demonstrate many of the accuracy theories one way or another. I can't say the bullet spinning the rifle has been a problem. When the '700' series first came out there was criticism that with no flat bottom to bed it would not perform that well... and that certainly has not been true. Clearance with the lug sides and within the screw holes has not been a problem with 'uncontrolled torque' either. "Rebound' of the action is an interesting term, but I don't believe it has proven to be a problem. The rifle does not 'rebound' like a spring operated air rifle with any great force at all.

I am surprised that more shooters are not gluing their actions in... that has been proven in Centerfire Short Range Benchrest.
 
guntech said:
It is really hard to demonstrate many of the accuracy theories one way or another. I can't say the bullet spinning the rifle has been a problem. When the '700' series first came out there was criticism that with no flat bottom to bed it would not perform that well... and that certainly has not been true. Clearance with the lug sides and within the screw holes has not been a problem with 'uncontrolled torque' either. "Rebound' of the action is an interesting term, but I don't believe it has proven to be a problem. The rifle does not 'rebound' like a spring operated air rifle with any great force at all.

I am surprised that more shooters are not gluing their actions in... that has been proven in Centerfire Short Range Benchrest.
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You have me intrigued with this gluing option. Pls elaborate!
 
swissinn said:
You have me intrigued with this gluing option. Pls elaborate!
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The action is first stress free bedded and the barrel floated... if you are happy with it... then clean the action very well finishing with acetone or lacquer thinner. Lightly rough up all the bedding compound. All the surfaces need to be clean of previous release agent and lightly sanded. Spread a very thin coat of epoxy everywhere and squeeze the barreled action in place and hold it there with the screws with light pressure. Let the glass cure. It is now glued in. The screws are for looks. bit difficult to remove depending on action shape. Usually a hot iron on top of the scope mounts for 20 minutes or so will create enough heat for the epoxy to break down and you can pry it apart.

This is done with many Benchrest rifles - first started in the 60's that I know of.
 
Yes. Charlie Parkinson, in London, was doing that in target rifles with laminated stocks when I first met him in 1961 or 62.

First one I can remember seeing was an Improved Zipper in a Rem 721. He won a lot of matches with that rifle. Earl Leech was another guy gluing actions into stocks back then.

How time flies!
Ted
 
guntech said:
The action is first stress free bedded and the barrel floated... if you are happy with it... then clean the action very well finishing with acetone or lacquer thinner. Lightly rough up all the bedding compound. All the surfaces need to be clean of previous release agent and lightly sanded. Spread a very thin coat of epoxy everywhere and squeeze the barreled action in place and hold it there with the screws with light pressure. Let the glass cure. It is now glued in. The screws are for looks. bit difficult to remove depending on action shape. Usually a hot iron on top of the scope mounts for 20 minutes or so will create enough heat for the epoxy to break down and you can pry it apart.

This is done with many Benchrest rifles - first started in the 60's that I know of.
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But not the recoil lug?
 
swissinn said:
But not the recoil lug?
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Most short range benchrest rifles (100-300 yards) don't have recoil lugs per se. The glue and the thickness of the tang take the recoil. the actions don't have magazine cut outs so there is a lot of gluing area. The guns are not heavy recoilers either. Once the action is glued the stock is now part of the action. Trigger hanging fixtures can allow for trigger changes but you aren't going to see the bottom of your action for the duration.

I suppose a recoil lug could be glued. It may not be a simple job breaking it free from the stock when you change your mind. On second thought, heating from an iron should work on separate or integral lugs.

NormB
 
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A friend of mine is a BR shooter and he has more than a few of his actions glued in. It seems that in the BR world that gluing your action is not un-common.
 
Seems to me it would be more of a nicety than anything else. Not having to constantly check action screw torque. Since I hate maintenance this might be something I'll consider. As long as it holds the recoil of my .300 Lapua magnum.
 
swissinn said:
Seems to me it would be more of a nicety than anything else. Not having to constantly check action screw torque. Since I hate maintenance this might be something I'll consider. As long as it holds the recoil of my .300 Lapua magnum.
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In the bench rest world, those "niceties" are the difference in winning and loosing BR matches. Where a 5 group agg. under .2000" ( in the teens) may be required to win the 100 yard match, and a .2500 agg. is a distant also ran.

For the .300 Lapua use lots of strong glue :):)

NormB
 
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