Mountain Rifle with Grizzly capability..your thoughts?
- Thread starter BCBAIRDO
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Black bears are typically predatory in an attack situation so diffusing the situation can be more difficult. Grizz rarely are predatory but attack if startled, with cubs or on a food source. I've whacked a couple blacks at very close range as well but in both cases I was aware that there was a problem bear in the area and was ready. It's easy to take what I'm saying out of context if you so desire and I've never said a rifle wouldn't kill a bear but at the end of the day, the average person has a better chance of surviving an attack with bear spray....especially with grizz...the original bear in question in this thread.
I can see the anklets now... WWTJD
Carry a rifle and a bear tag. Then it's a non issue. If not in season, which is about 2 months here in bc. (Excluding hibernation). If in that 60 days a year you can't leaflet harvest a black bear. You might be in the bush for 10-20days. I think people over react about bears.
sheephunter, you may well be correct about the advantage of bear spray if a person has little to no hunting or shooting experience.
However, a good number of the members on this site have many years of both....also from past experiences they have shown they the ability to stay calm and respond as necessary in a threatening situation. So although I'm sure you believe what you have read in those studies I think the subjects of study will reflect the outcome.
I didn't say I haven't had very close encounters with grizzlies...what I said was, I've never had to shot one to protect myself and as a side note I've done it without the beneficial attributes of bear spray.
However, a good number of the members on this site have many years of both....also from past experiences they have shown they the ability to stay calm and respond as necessary in a threatening situation. So although I'm sure you believe what you have read in those studies I think the subjects of study will reflect the outcome.
I didn't say I haven't had very close encounters with grizzlies...what I said was, I've never had to shot one to protect myself and as a side note I've done it without the beneficial attributes of bear spray.
I don't doubt that there are many people like that on here....there are some incredibly experienced shooters/hunters and I've never eluded to the contrary. In fact I've said many times that the "average" person has a better chance of survival with bear spray. I suspect there are a lot of average hunters/shooters on here too. Add to that, that in the mountains, guns are often strapped on packs or otherwise not immediately accessible. Personally, I'm happy to consider myself in that average group and always carry bear spray in bear country, armed or not. I too have averted some very close range grizz encounters without the beneficial attributes of bear spray but after enough of them, I've started carrying it always. I'm sure they would have gone much smoother with the beneficial attributes of bear spray and the bear might have learned a valuable lesson.
Bigfoot 870
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I'm thinking that a rifle slung over one's shoulder would be the only other choice, as compared to carrying it by hand. Darwin might just get to present an award, to the the person whose gun is strapped on their pack, in grizz country
I'm thinking that a rifle slung over one's shoulder would be the only other choice, as compared to carrying it by hand. Darwin might just get to present an award, to the the person whose gun is strapped on their pack, in grizz country
Not overly practical carry with an 80 pound pack on back in rough terrain. Often both hands are required to prevent you from becoming a Darwin Award candidate.
I live in the mountains, hunt in the mountains, and am around bears all the time. Grizzlies aren't as common around here, but they do exist, and black bears are usually the more sneaky, dangerous ones anyway. Although there is nothing quite as terrifying as bumping into a grizzly that is sitting on top of his dead moose dinner....But anyway, what to do? You are going hunting for sheep but might run into a grizzly and want to be prepared if you have a negative encounter. (Well, you probably WILL see a grizz or 2 or more but chances are it won't be a problem. )
My solution when it comes to rifle selection is not worry too much about stopping a grizzly charge. Pick a rifle that is chambered in something from 7-08 to 300Whatever and use good bullets, go hunting and pay attention. I've hunted in grizzly country with lots of rifles, but most of the time it has been with a .270, 7RM or 300something. I feel perfectly safe with these loaded with good bullets.
If I was hunting grizzly primarily, I would take my 375 Ruger, even if it is a pound heavier than my custom 300WSM.
As for bear spray- Used it enough to know it can work quite well, it can drive the bear away only to have it return over and over, it can fail, it can fail HORRIBLY if the wind is in the wrong direction, and you are going to get some on you regardless, which is unpleasant. It's another tool in the toolbox, and it does have it's applications. It's a much better choice than nothing at all, or for those with not much or any firearm experience. Its a good choice in populated areas or areas you can't bring guns. It's good to have around the farm to hose down bears that you want to dissuade from bothering you, but it's too nice a day to deal with a dead bear. It has it's place, and I think it's a good product to have on hand.
I know I will never pack bear spray if I am armed with a rifle, as I just don't see it being practical to drop my rifle on the ground and unhitch my bear spray from it's holster, when I could have just raised my rifle, clicked the safety off and shot the bear.
My solution when it comes to rifle selection is not worry too much about stopping a grizzly charge. Pick a rifle that is chambered in something from 7-08 to 300Whatever and use good bullets, go hunting and pay attention. I've hunted in grizzly country with lots of rifles, but most of the time it has been with a .270, 7RM or 300something. I feel perfectly safe with these loaded with good bullets.
If I was hunting grizzly primarily, I would take my 375 Ruger, even if it is a pound heavier than my custom 300WSM.
As for bear spray- Used it enough to know it can work quite well, it can drive the bear away only to have it return over and over, it can fail, it can fail HORRIBLY if the wind is in the wrong direction, and you are going to get some on you regardless, which is unpleasant. It's another tool in the toolbox, and it does have it's applications. It's a much better choice than nothing at all, or for those with not much or any firearm experience. Its a good choice in populated areas or areas you can't bring guns. It's good to have around the farm to hose down bears that you want to dissuade from bothering you, but it's too nice a day to deal with a dead bear. It has it's place, and I think it's a good product to have on hand.
I know I will never pack bear spray if I am armed with a rifle, as I just don't see it being practical to drop my rifle on the ground and unhitch my bear spray from it's holster, when I could have just raised my rifle, clicked the safety off and shot the bear.
Bigfoot 870
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Ted, If you look at the "footer" underneath sheephunter's posts, it appears that he's saying that everyone, other than himself, is stupid. I think that you are the smart one, based on rifle carry
Ted, If you look at the "footer" underneath sheephunter's posts, it appears that he's saying that everyone, other than himself, is stupid. I think that you are the smart one, based on rifle carry
Definitely not all...just some. I'm sure Ted has his reasons for the way he carries his rifle as do I
sheephunter, while I find the majority of your posts informative,I must admit your sounding awful elitist in this particular thread.
I can respect your opinion that bear spray has tested more effective for you personally, but I think you are selling a good number of decent rifleman short by saying they'd be better served with spray in a stressful situation.
As Gatehouse said there are many of us CGN'ers that live, work and play in the mountains and you don't need to be hunting or guiding to be spending time in the alpine and observing the behaviour of the local fauna.
Black bear have given me more trouble than grizzly ever have, I'd sure like to keep it that way.
These days I have little ones running the ridges with me, and it's my responsibility to both teach them bear safety and protect them. Nothing "Rambo" about it.
Back on topic.
To the OP...there is another chambering to consider and it is a rifle you have familiarity with. My go to rifle when hunting the local mountain ranges to the south is a .284win, but when I'm in the Cariboo mountains I have been packing my Model Seven in 350. The bear back there both black and grizzly run decent size and have very little human contact.
I don't feel so wary of bear when up in the sub-alpine or along scree fields where one has decent visibility and can't get bounced, but it sure is comforting to have a light and short heavy-hitter when you're pushing grizzly tunnels through the alders to get up there. Stepping on a near steaming grizz turd every 15 feet because the alders are so thick you can't see your feet makes me a wee bit nervous at the best of times.
The Model Seven on the scale is a work in progress, but when I put decent glass on it and small amount of metal work it will be down a little over 6.5lbs how low I go depends on how much felt recoil I experience. As currently pictured at a hair under 7lbs it is very manageable to shoot, the fiberglass Brown Precision stock really seems to soak up the recoil, and the recoil pulse isn't as sharp as the sub 6lb NULA.
With 200gr Barnes TSX and a stout load of ramshot TAC I'm up well over 2800FPS on my chrono and twisting dials I can make regular hits at 500 on a 12" gong with very little concern for wind drift.
It is a 500 yard capable load on sheep or deer and although I haven't shot a grizzly with this bullet I have no reason to believe it wouldn't burger one out to 150yds...that TSX pokes deep!.
I am hoping to shoot a goat with this rifle, and when I do I definitely report back on how it did.
I'm making my own 350 brass out of mostly range pick-up 300 win mag. I run it through a trim-die, neck turn and then anneal...lifetime supply.
So, in a nutshell If you're keeping your shots under 300 you can simply hold on fur or you can go to 500 with a confirmed BDC reticle or twisting dials, that is if you can live with the recoil that a lightweight magnum can dish-out enough to practice.
"Hammer of Thor" performance and extensive aftermarket support for the platform are also a big plus with the Model Seven In my opinion as good a mountain rifle out to 500 as any..and I've had a couple few on the quest.
I can respect your opinion that bear spray has tested more effective for you personally, but I think you are selling a good number of decent rifleman short by saying they'd be better served with spray in a stressful situation.
As Gatehouse said there are many of us CGN'ers that live, work and play in the mountains and you don't need to be hunting or guiding to be spending time in the alpine and observing the behaviour of the local fauna.
Black bear have given me more trouble than grizzly ever have, I'd sure like to keep it that way.
These days I have little ones running the ridges with me, and it's my responsibility to both teach them bear safety and protect them. Nothing "Rambo" about it.
Back on topic.
To the OP...there is another chambering to consider and it is a rifle you have familiarity with. My go to rifle when hunting the local mountain ranges to the south is a .284win, but when I'm in the Cariboo mountains I have been packing my Model Seven in 350. The bear back there both black and grizzly run decent size and have very little human contact.
I don't feel so wary of bear when up in the sub-alpine or along scree fields where one has decent visibility and can't get bounced, but it sure is comforting to have a light and short heavy-hitter when you're pushing grizzly tunnels through the alders to get up there. Stepping on a near steaming grizz turd every 15 feet because the alders are so thick you can't see your feet makes me a wee bit nervous at the best of times.
The Model Seven on the scale is a work in progress, but when I put decent glass on it and small amount of metal work it will be down a little over 6.5lbs how low I go depends on how much felt recoil I experience. As currently pictured at a hair under 7lbs it is very manageable to shoot, the fiberglass Brown Precision stock really seems to soak up the recoil, and the recoil pulse isn't as sharp as the sub 6lb NULA.
With 200gr Barnes TSX and a stout load of ramshot TAC I'm up well over 2800FPS on my chrono and twisting dials I can make regular hits at 500 on a 12" gong with very little concern for wind drift.
It is a 500 yard capable load on sheep or deer and although I haven't shot a grizzly with this bullet I have no reason to believe it wouldn't burger one out to 150yds...that TSX pokes deep!.
I am hoping to shoot a goat with this rifle, and when I do I definitely report back on how it did.
I'm making my own 350 brass out of mostly range pick-up 300 win mag. I run it through a trim-die, neck turn and then anneal...lifetime supply.
So, in a nutshell If you're keeping your shots under 300 you can simply hold on fur or you can go to 500 with a confirmed BDC reticle or twisting dials, that is if you can live with the recoil that a lightweight magnum can dish-out enough to practice.
"Hammer of Thor" performance and extensive aftermarket support for the platform are also a big plus with the Model Seven In my opinion as good a mountain rifle out to 500 as any..and I've had a couple few on the quest.
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Sun and steel...perhaps you are reading the words others are putting in my mouth for me and not my own. No where have I said there aren't accomplished riflemen among us; in fact I've gone out of my way to use the word average several times when referring to those better served by bear spray. There are many well-above-average shooters on this forum but I'm sure there are many below average too. I agree that learning all aspects of bear safety is critical and that includes firearms, bear spray and bear awareness. It's funny when a thread comes up about the competency of the average shooter's ability to hit a deer, the conversation quickly turns to how poor of a shot that most hunters are but when it comes to bear defence, everyone is a 10 ring shooter. The truth is, many among us are not good shots and add the stress of a bear encounter into that and accuracy can go right out the window. There is a Rambo mentality among many when you put a rifle in their hands and they feel invincible but sadly they aren't. I recognize my own short-comings and am not too proud to admit that I'm best served by bear spray as my first line of defence......no doubt there are some that equally well served with a rifle but I can guarantee it isn't the majority of hunters out there.
I never implied that you were any less of a person for choosing spray over a firearm.
I have carried spray many times when bagging or highpointing, many times a gun isn't practical and the situation dictates the kit.
I don't desire an argument with you anyways as it seems my avatar has Rambo in it and yours is a guy on a mountain with a big ass sheep of some sort...no win situation for me!
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