Savage goes kaboom

lupothebutcher

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Came across this on the internet today, the date says 2009 but I've never seen it before so I thought I would post it just incase it hasn't been beaten to death. I've never fired a black powder gun before but even I know that you don't use regular smokeless powder.....

Savage Muzzleloader Goes KABOOM


Never ever EVER use black powder measures when using smokeless powder in a muzzle loader!!! Use a powder scale & weigh your charges!

A Winnipeg area shooter by the name of Trent Procter who works for Manitoba Hydro was sighting in his Savage muzzleloader rifle and nearly lost his hand. Luckily, he had his hand on the scope instead of the forearm when this happened.

The North American Muzzleloader Hunting Association published the shooters account of the incident .. “On October 24th, 2009, I went to Broad Valley, Manitoba where I had purchased a hunting cabin with a couple of friends, to do some work on the cabin. And we thought we would get in a hunt that afternoon and the next morning. I had not sighted my muzzleloader this year, so went to a pit south of town to do so. I loaded the gun with 42.5 grains of IMR 4759 powder, using a 250 grain Barnes bullet. One of my buddies suggested I shoot over the hood of his truck, but I did not have ear protection, so decided to shoot off of a canvas duffle bag full of clothes. First shot was my last shot – as there was a large explosion…with my hand under the barrel on the forestock. The barrel and forestock blew apart (per pictures), and some part of the gun blew off and dented the door of the truck. My buddies took me to Hodgson General Hospital 20 minutes away. From there, I was transported by ambulance to Winnipeg Health Science Center 2 hours away, where I underwent 6 hours of surgery. Doctors expect 2-3 more surgeries, and I will be off work for 6 months to a year.









 
> Luckily, he had his hand on the scope instead of the forearm when this happened.

If you read the interview with the shooter, he had his hand under the forestock. I thought that the gun was one of those designed to shoot smokeless loads. If so, makes me wonder if there was a significant (several inches) air space between powder and bullet

cheers mooncoon
 
Never ever EVER use black powder measures when using smokeless powder in a muzzle loader!!

No sh!t Sherlock! BP measures by volume, not weight. ie-90gr by volume of BP is fine, 90gr by volume smokeless...well, you see the guys hand.
 
> Luckily, he had his hand on the scope instead of the forearm when this happened.

If you read the interview with the shooter, he had his hand under the forestock. I thought that the gun was one of those designed to shoot smokeless loads. If so, makes me wonder if there was a significant (several inches) air space between powder and bullet

cheers mooncoon

Or he thought it was the smokeless model and it wasn't.
 
You can pretty much bet on a double charge, which isn't as obvious as it would be with black-powder. Smokeless muzzleloading is so unlike black powder shooting that practically everything you know about muzzleloading doesn't apply. A bullet seated inches off the powder with smokeless would be hard pressed to generate enough pressure to push the bullet out of the barrel. It needs that initial back pressure to work.
 
The Savage kabooms are inevitably user error, most likely a double charge of smokeless, or a black powder volume of smokeless powder.

The Savages are designed for smokeless, and probably the strongest muzzleloaders out there.

These threads seem to come along about once a month .......
 
Something isn't making sense here. He states 42.5 grains of ...{whatever smokeless} behind a 250 grain projectile.

I don't load for smokeless, but 42 grains of Black is a far cry for a hunting load {doubt it would even move 250 grains with stopping authority out to 100 yds} so he didn't mistake his loads.

He must have been told 42.5+250 grains is the load.

Can any reloaders chime in on how many grains of powder a stout 12ga round takes? This would be a comparison, albeit on the lighter side I would imagine {shotgun=35 grains (I know its different powder with different properties) vs his load of 42.5 grains}.

In any event, that is one fu<ked up paw. It could have been worse, it could have been his right hand! :)
 
Never ever EVER use black powder measures when using smokeless powder in a muzzle loader!!

No sh!t Sherlock! BP measures by volume, not weight. ie-90gr by volume of BP is fine, 90gr by volume smokeless...well, you see the guys hand.

even 24 grains by volume compared to 24 graisn by weight could do this. 24 grains of reloader 15 will fill a .223 rem case by weight, i dunno what it would be by volume, but im pretty sure it could cause big problems.
 
The Savage kabooms are inevitably user error, most likely a double charge of smokeless, or a black powder volume of smokeless powder.

The Savages are designed for smokeless, and probably the strongest muzzleloaders out there.

These threads seem to come along about once a month .......

same as the Remington 700 safety "issue" that pops up every now and then.
 
Something isn't making sense here. He states 42.5 grains of ...{whatever smokeless} behind a 250 grain projectile.

I don't load for smokeless, but 42 grains of Black is a far cry for a hunting load {doubt it would even move 250 grains with stopping authority out to 100 yds} so he didn't mistake his loads.

He must have been told 42.5+250 grains is the load.

Can any reloaders chime in on how many grains of powder a stout 12ga round takes? This would be a comparison, albeit on the lighter side I would imagine {shotgun=35 grains (I know its different powder with different properties) vs his load of 42.5 grains}.

In any event, that is one fu<ked up paw. It could have been worse, it could have been his right hand! :)

Hodgen reloading center will tell you what type of powder how much and the pressure just pick any type of round and you can see a big difference with the powders. Use the wrong one and you have a huge pressure difference.

Most loads of a shotgun depending on what you load are around 34 grains of powder depending on they type and how heavy the shot they create around 10.700 psi. Now a rifle like 308 win uses about 40-44 grains with a 150 grain bullet which creates between 45.000-60,000 psi which is a big difference for not much powder. Some powder is safer then others as if you double charge it will spill out of the case and some of them you can over charge and not notice depending on what you used. IF he used pistol powder he was really dumb.

Just pick a round look at the powder and you can see what pressure it can have from min to max load. (recomened) Some people go over and some people go under but that can become unsafe.
h ttp://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle

PS he used a magnum pistol powder really dumb...

h ttp://www.imrpowder.com/sr4759.html
SR 4759

This bulky handgun powder works great in the magnums, but really shines as a reduced load propellant for rifle cartridges. It's large grain size gives good loading density for reduced loads, enhancing velocity uniformity.

looking through reloading data for the 375 H&H 39 grains was 54,000 CUP of pressure. He used more then that which means that he bumped it way up and was around 60,000-70,000 that's a ton of pressure. If you convert 54,000 cup into psi it's 63,962 psi which means he had a smoking high amount of pressure.
 
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The caliber is not stated but assuming the gun is and inline and designed for sabots, the caliber is likely to be .50. Even if the gun was .45 cal, the pressure would be significantly lower than the 64K in a .38 cal rifle. The pressure generated by smokeless powder is affected considerably by changes in the diameter (volume) of the barrel or cartridge it is shot in. The charge measured to 1/2 grain suggests that he had preweighed his charges rather than a volumetric measure

cheers mooncoon
 
The caliber is not stated but assuming the gun is and inline and designed for sabots, the caliber is likely to be .50. Even if the gun was .45 cal, the pressure would be significantly lower than the 64K in a .38 cal rifle. The pressure generated by smokeless powder is affected considerably by changes in the diameter (volume) of the barrel or cartridge it is shot in. The charge measured to 1/2 grain suggests that he had preweighed his charges rather than a volumetric measure

cheers mooncoon

Precisely. So the open question is 42.5 weighed grains of smokeless an excessive load or is something else going on here?
 
Precisely. So the open question is 42.5 weighed grains of smokeless an excessive load or is something else going on here?
IMO something else. Weighed 42 to 47grs of that IMR 4759 is standard load behind any 250gr --- 40-45grs behind 300s. Must use sabots to be safe.
 
Mine turned out exactly the same as that one but there was only a bruised thumb as a result. I had lent it to a buddy who had loaded it (47 gr. of 4759 and a 250 tc shockwave) hunted for a few days and never fired it. Another buddy asked to borrow it and he picked it up from the original buddy. He loaded it with another 47 grains of 4759 and another 250 grain shockwave then shot it at a nice muley. For 94 grains of fast powder and 500 grains of bullet I thought it stood up pretty well. The Tasco titan on it was bent and bell cracked but is still very clear. Bought a new one that afternoon got it sighted in and we went back and got that mule the next day 185" typical. The new one got a couple rings from a paint pen on the ram rod to mark where it should all be when it is loaded and unloaded.
 
That wasnt caused by 42.5gns of IMR4759. The standard load of SR4759 is 43 gns(by weight) for THAT rifle,the savage ML10, behind either 250gn OR 300 gn bullet with sabot. Ive even seen one of these launch a ramrod without blowing up (sounded like a howitzer, and left a dandy scope mark around the guys eye, and no it wasn't me). The volume is similar to 80-100 gns Blackpowder by volume. Something else is up. Do a search (not here)......there are a couple anti ML10 guys out there that like to send this bunk around. These pics have been floating around for a good while.
 
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