I don't doubt that. We had a grizz attack in Alberta a few years ago where the fellow put a magazine and a half into a grizz from a .45ACP before the bear broke off the attack. It still went a couple hundred yards before expiring.
.357 vs .44 Magnum for Ranch Hand Wilderness Carry
- Thread starter onetwentyish
- Start date
I don't doubt that. We had a grizz attack in Alberta a few years ago where the fellow put a magazine and a half into a grizz from a .45ACP before the bear broke off the attack. It still went a couple hundred yards before expiring.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
If this is truly a defense gun in case of a bear attack then the answer is resoundingly, and clearly, 44mag. Economics of the bullet wont mean crap to you when your staring a bear in the eyes.
If its for plinking, go 38/357
If its for plinking, go 38/357
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
Technically it is for both. I live in the prairies and do a fair amount o target shooting. Bears or whatever are not much concern although we have had the odd one. It wont be caried at home.
But when I do go west, it will be caried where permisable. I only really get to spend 2-3 weeks a year in the rockies and foothills, and it is spent largly on a sport quad. I imagine there will be 100 rounds of target practice spent throughout the year for every day it is actually carried in the west, but that is very optimistic with .44 magnum, probably expect 1/2 of the round count due to extra cost.
Simply put, I am not at this time ready to be a hand loader at this time, dont have a place for it atm. Probably get into that ball game in 1-2 years.
Could you maybe link up with a buddy that reloads. It really doesn't take long to load several boxes, and if you are using cast bullets, the savings are astronomical, especially if you cast yourself. I haven't loaded for handgun in over 30 years, but I'll bet you can load with home-cast for 5-6 dollars a box max.
Id rather have the extra velocity, sight plane and capacity of the full size 1892 carbine without giant lever loop to handicap operating the gun, the weight difference is negligable with a little trapper sized carbine. That and you dont look like you just $h!t your pants walking around with one in that ridiculous holster, no wonder its a non restricted. The only thing I would be more hesitant to trust my life with would be a Remington product.
If you want to play cowboy with a sawed off get the dominion arms outlaw.
I'd be far more concerned about getting attacked by farm equipment in Alberta.
If you want to play cowboy with a sawed off get the dominion arms outlaw.
I'd be far more concerned about getting attacked by farm equipment in Alberta.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I am looking very strongly at which of these rounds would be best suited to my needs. I would like to purchase a Rossi Ranch Hand for wilderness carry (one on the belt/thigh is better then two in the tent).
I am torn between the .357/.38 special model and the .44 magnum model because I really like the economics for target practice of the .38 special, but I am concerned how much stopping power I would be giving up to have the economics of .38 special. Am I over concerned about the difference?
I have no experience with either cartridge, and I am not currently set up to handload/reload, nor will I be in the near future.
Note: this is not going to be a replacement for the the 12g or the 30-30, but rather an additional firearm that CAN be holstered and caried when the bulk of a larger gun would typically be left behind there for rendering it useless.
(Insert "Bear Defense threads are soposed to be on Monday" comments below) I'm a day late ok!
I know you said that you weren't trying to replace a .30/30 or s short shotgun with the Ranch Hand, but when we compare the difference in weight and portability that some fine bear protection guns have vs. the RH, and the terminal performance of a full sized rifle cartridge, vs a pistol cartridge, I can't escape the nagging feeling that you're on the wrong track. If we to have a look at Ruger's line up of compact rifles, we see that there are several models that would be much better for your intended purposes. Not only does a .308 or a .30/06 trump the terminal performance of a .357 or a .44, I think you'll find that a short bolt action carbine actually has better handling characteristics than the Ranch Hand. Add a ghost ring rear sight and a rectangular post front to the bolt gun, and it will be more precise as well. If the cost of shooting makes you nervous, don't be. There is no shortage of cheap .308 and .30/06 brass, which in many places simply needs to be picked up off the ground, cleaned up, and put back into service. If you're going to get the most out of a .44 you have to handload anyway, and handloading cast bullet loads in a .30/06 is cheaper than the .44; you'll be loading 150-200 gr bullets for a .30 caliber rifle cartridge compared to 200-300 gr bullets for a .44.
It would be a simple matter to demonstrate why a rifle is a better choice than the RH, provided you had a RH for the comparison. Using a long line, tie a plastic pail to the back of a truck, snowmobile, quad or what have you, and get the driver to accelerate way, the vehicle is behind you, the pail is to your front. Now as the pail jumps and rolls toward you, try to hit it. I bet you do better with the bolt gun. Now consider the possibility that you're hiking in the mountains, and you inadvertently stumble onto a grizzly's kill, and here he comes boiling out from behind a nearby deadfall to protect it, and possibly to add you to it. Can you handle it? Can your rifle?
Now you might still decide that you want a Ranch Hand, because you like the idea of it, and that's fine. But if you are going to carry that thing for protection, practice with it, until you can get at least a couple of hits on that pail. If on the other hand my argument has hit a nerve, and you've reconsidered and are now focused on purchasing a bolt action carbine, the same advice applies. Practice, practice, practice. Run scenarios that make sense for the terrain you intend to travel though. After all, there are only three things that can save you; lots of practice, being aware of your surroundings, and a cool head. A little luck doesn't hurt either, but we tend to make our own.
Everything you say is so very true. the only thing is, it depends on druthers. I got the feeling the OP was hooked on a Ranch Hand. Personally, if I ever got one, it would have to lose that ugly stock and ridiculous big loop before I even let it near my other guns. But that's me. There are tens of thousands of people out there who have and love RH's. As far as ballistics goes, how many people have ever had to use a gun for critter defense in North America? There's probably a higher chance that a slung rifle would act as a lightning rod in a storm than there is of a RH not being able to pull his fat from the fire. I have a relative who is an outfitter in NE Ontario. Has been for some 40 years. At first, he got his ATT to carry a .44 for defense. Then, he found it was just too much hassle, so he went to a pistol grip pump shottie. Now, as far as I know, he doesn't carry anything except when he is actually tracking a shot bear.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
Boomer, every thing you say is very true, but like I said, this is not a replacement of the 30-30, or 12g. Where it is feesable to have one or the other slung or stuck in the box of a side by side, there will be one. This is more of a extra safety for when seperated from a long gun for short periods of time, where long guns would be in the way or left behind in the side by side.
I think it is resoundingly clear that if I am to add a Ranch Hand for this purpose, it better be a .44 Mag.
I think it is resoundingly clear that if I am to add a Ranch Hand for this purpose, it better be a .44 Mag.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Caliber not withstanding, the Ranch hand is a clone of the Win. 92 action, an action I would never trust for a personal defense tool at any time. The 92's are fun to shoot and will work "most" of the time. I have two of them myself and have shot with people using a couple hundred or so more over the years and invariably there will be a stove pipe or ejected live round just when you need it the most.
I love (to hate) these threads where unsolicited advice becomes the norm!
You are perfectly on track with your thinking. It's simply the best option you could carry when you would not otherwise carry a beefier bangstick. Rule number 1: Have a gun.
My four cents:
1. The Rossis are pretty rough out of the box. They smooth up VERY nicely with some work though. (lots of DIY work possible)
2. They require practice to become competent shooter with them. (less than a handgun, but more than a rifle)
3. You can carry it in a bandolier-slung cross-draw holster much more comfortably than on your hip (contact Coho911 on AO for this). You can also sling it very easily (this is what I did for mine), and it carries very comfortably on your back. It's less accessible, but similar to how I would typically carry a shotgun in rough country.
4. 45 Colt is another great option, ESPECIALLY if you will get into handloading eventually. Typical 45 Colt ammo off the shelf (good enough for practice) is both very mild and significantly cheaper than 44 Mag, but you should (might?) be able to find "Buffalo Bore" +P loads or similar for carry. Once you start handloading, it is very easy to make 45 Colt loads that are more powerful than off the shelf 44 Mag loads, with a MUCH better bullet selection available. Just another option. (guess what mine is chambered in?!)
It's awkward because the torque from working the lever is only being countered by your hand on the foregrip, which is not really ergonomic for that purpose.
I found a bungy sling attached to the saddle ring really helped to tension a good hold and also support the rear of the gun when cyling the action. It works really well and with practice a guy might make some hits on boomers bucket, which sounds like a real challenge with any non scatter gun.
For the guys not liking the large loop.
I didn't like the look of it or the fact that it makes the gun less sleek but I have to say I find it very comfortable in use. I can push my hand down and forward into the large comfortable radius in a way that is not possible with the small rossi loop.
The ideal loop in my opinion is one made by down sizing a large to a dimension in between the small and the large.
Not everyone lives in polar or grizzly bear country. It's obviously a personal choice and just like mag capacity, bigger and more powerful is rarely a bad thing if the user can handle it proficiently.
If the idea of the OP is to carry a rifle and just have the ranchhand in a holster as secondary gun then the .357 makes even more sense to me.
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
He's quoted the member that was talking about how he dislikes unsolicited advice, who then went on to give you unsolicited advice. Just pointing out that he did what he claims to dislike.
Did someone say holster?
This shoulder harness is setup to move with the wearer for seamless comfort, be adjustable within 3 sizes to allow for clothes (or seasonal Turkey gains
), and the holster can be worn on the harness or belt. For more info, pricing, and pics click here.i bought a rossi .357 m92 at p and d.......great gun, very difficult to load......im going to get the kit from steve, polish the internals, and hope for the best, but loading it is a real C U Next Tuesday....you can get a few in, the gun tries to spit em out, or the loading gate closes, and you cannot put a next round in, if anyone else has had this problem, id appreciate some experienced advice
