This is a bit of a heads up for those of you that use the surplus powders available from Higginson's in Hawkesbury.
I have been using those powders for over 40 years. I used to buy them from Tom Higginson, when it was still called Ammo Mart.
Even back then, his offerings were cheap. Usually less than a third of their commercial brethren.
A few weeks ago, while it was so darned cold, -35c, I decided to bust cut open the tape on my last container of WC867. This is quite a slow powder, or it's supposed to be. On the Hodgdons quickness rate chart, it is listed between 95-100. Someplace between IMR 4831 and AA8700.
I bought 21 pounds of it from Tom and because he liked the results I would send back to him on the different batches of powder he was bringing in. Often, he would send me 500 bullets and a few hundred rounds of brass and about 5 times as much powder as it would take to load them up. This worked great for me. If I bought up certain lots, which Id did regularly, especially for group buys, he would always ship it free and often add way more than the 1 free pound for every twenty pounds of each individual powder and even discount his sale prices.
Understand, he was selling this stuff with at least a 500% mark up. He bought his batches 5000 pounds at a time, by the rail car load or tractor trailer van load. Even after shipping and delivery costs, his mark up was still that high.
The same mark up does not occur at your local retailer and it certainly didn't occur for Tom with commercial powders. There is a very good reason for this. Commercial Cannister Powders are supposedly kept within a +or - 2.5% burn rate. Military powders are a whole different ball game and costs need to be kept down as much as possible.
Powders are either single base or double base types. Their burn rates are regulated by the amount of nitroglycerin in the kernels as well as the graphite type coating that keeps them separated and flowing. Much more to it than that but it gives you an idea of what occurs.
They make up surplus powders in 45 to 50 ton batches. That's why you see them listed, when they come up for sale with designations like WC735 or #44 or H414SL10. They make this stuff up using weights and measures as per their recipes. Now, not all components are created equal. Just like everything else we use without question and trust what we read on the label.
What happens with powders when they are made up, is that they are tested under very different conditions than I would have thought. Relative burning rate are totally ignored. The folks in their labs take the powders and test their pressure levels under certain conditions. They have no idea how one batch will act from one to the next, even though they use the exact same recipe every time.
To keep costs down, they actually develop special loads for each lot for the intended purpose it was made up for. This is far cheaper than losing batches because they don't fall within particular parameters. This information is passed on to the people using it to manufacture whichever ammunition it was intended for.
Another thing about surplus powders is that it may or may not be new. It may actually be take down powder. Take down powder comes from different sources. Usually, small arms ammo is used up in practice or sold as surplus or given away as lend lease or just destroyed.
Larger pieces, like 20mm and up will be taken apart and the components will be inspected and salvaged. This is figured out in several ways but often, it is by time limit. They also do operational tests to determine if the rounds are still effective or may just be obsolete.
Anyway, to make a long story short, people like Tom Higginson and Andrew, his grandson will be offered this surplus powder from time to time. Andrew doesn't seem to be nearly as keen on bringing it in as Tom used to be but he still seems to bring in odd lots. Personally, I would like to see him bring in a lot more different surplus powders. Maybe they just aren't available or just to much trouble? Maybe worried about litigation???
Back to my WC867. Much to my dismay, this last box has a different lot number on it. There is also an note inside asking me to check it out and develop a load for it in the 6.5x55 and maybe the 7x57 with intermediate weight bullets. OOPs. I didn't notice it. When the WC867 was released as surplus, it was an actual surplus powder and not a take down powder. It was very close to RL22 in speed or even AA8700. This batch, of which there was only around 650 pounds of it made available is a whole different ball game. Somewhere between RL15 and W760. Maybe even faster.
If it hadn't been for the note from Tom inside the box, I wouldn't have even noticed. He was very particular to send components when he sent me powder to experiment with and if it was just a group buy, he would make certain it was all the same lot or would be very careful to call me and ask if it was OK to send a different lot.
This package was sent just before Tom passed away from cancer. He had gone through Chemo and I know how that can effect your thinking.
My reason for posting this is to warn people about how you have to be very careful when you get different lots of powders. Surplus powders are not identified with regular numbers. Sometimes, they will reissue a number and the powder will either much faster or slower than a previous lot. That is why surplus powder can be a real toss up and you need to start right at the starting load with the first couple of loads.
Commercial powders are usually very close. Maybe up to 5% variation from lot to lot.
I have seen some people insisting that powders of the same type and manufacturer should not be mixed. Well, IMHO each to his own. If it rocks your boat don't do it. Personally, I always blend modern commercial powders. Often, when you buy several cans, they will be made in as many different lots.
Several other loaders I know do the same thing. It just saves so much time and money because you don't have to work up a separate load with every lot.
If, I have a powder that is 15 or more years old, I will not blend it with a new powder, even if it is the same type. Plants building the older stuff have closed for one reason or another and new owners have bought up the brands and types of powder. There are bound to be some differences that can cause more grief than just starting over with new stuff. I don't care if I have to throw a part can out. I certainly won't try to sell it.
Usually this isn't a problem for me. I usually buy the powder in 8 lb kegs and when they get about half way down, pick up another and blend the last half with the new lot. Usually the combined lots will fit into just one keg. Saves space as well.
The big thing is, if you have finally used up the last of a can of powder you bought 20 years ago, don't just go out and buy a new can and expect to just use the same old load you've always used. You might get away with it and you might not. You more than likely won't get a Kaboom but you might end up with a stuck case or even a very light load.
The new commercial powders are better than anything available 10 years ago. They are well regulated and because they are, many of us just get to trusting or lazy. The commercial loader certainly don't. Often, the commercial loaders get their powders in huge batches, just like the military. When they don't use it up in their runs, they sell it off to the surplus markets. It just isn't worth their while to keep it, unless they have enough to do a whole run.
The same can be said for the home hand loader. If you are loading up a batch of ammo and run out of the power in one can and switch to another of the same type but a different lot, same with primers, you will likely have two separate groups on your targets with nothing to blame it on that is evident at the time. This is an often overlooked issue.
I have been using those powders for over 40 years. I used to buy them from Tom Higginson, when it was still called Ammo Mart.
Even back then, his offerings were cheap. Usually less than a third of their commercial brethren.
A few weeks ago, while it was so darned cold, -35c, I decided to bust cut open the tape on my last container of WC867. This is quite a slow powder, or it's supposed to be. On the Hodgdons quickness rate chart, it is listed between 95-100. Someplace between IMR 4831 and AA8700.
I bought 21 pounds of it from Tom and because he liked the results I would send back to him on the different batches of powder he was bringing in. Often, he would send me 500 bullets and a few hundred rounds of brass and about 5 times as much powder as it would take to load them up. This worked great for me. If I bought up certain lots, which Id did regularly, especially for group buys, he would always ship it free and often add way more than the 1 free pound for every twenty pounds of each individual powder and even discount his sale prices.
Understand, he was selling this stuff with at least a 500% mark up. He bought his batches 5000 pounds at a time, by the rail car load or tractor trailer van load. Even after shipping and delivery costs, his mark up was still that high.
The same mark up does not occur at your local retailer and it certainly didn't occur for Tom with commercial powders. There is a very good reason for this. Commercial Cannister Powders are supposedly kept within a +or - 2.5% burn rate. Military powders are a whole different ball game and costs need to be kept down as much as possible.
Powders are either single base or double base types. Their burn rates are regulated by the amount of nitroglycerin in the kernels as well as the graphite type coating that keeps them separated and flowing. Much more to it than that but it gives you an idea of what occurs.
They make up surplus powders in 45 to 50 ton batches. That's why you see them listed, when they come up for sale with designations like WC735 or #44 or H414SL10. They make this stuff up using weights and measures as per their recipes. Now, not all components are created equal. Just like everything else we use without question and trust what we read on the label.
What happens with powders when they are made up, is that they are tested under very different conditions than I would have thought. Relative burning rate are totally ignored. The folks in their labs take the powders and test their pressure levels under certain conditions. They have no idea how one batch will act from one to the next, even though they use the exact same recipe every time.
To keep costs down, they actually develop special loads for each lot for the intended purpose it was made up for. This is far cheaper than losing batches because they don't fall within particular parameters. This information is passed on to the people using it to manufacture whichever ammunition it was intended for.
Another thing about surplus powders is that it may or may not be new. It may actually be take down powder. Take down powder comes from different sources. Usually, small arms ammo is used up in practice or sold as surplus or given away as lend lease or just destroyed.
Larger pieces, like 20mm and up will be taken apart and the components will be inspected and salvaged. This is figured out in several ways but often, it is by time limit. They also do operational tests to determine if the rounds are still effective or may just be obsolete.
Anyway, to make a long story short, people like Tom Higginson and Andrew, his grandson will be offered this surplus powder from time to time. Andrew doesn't seem to be nearly as keen on bringing it in as Tom used to be but he still seems to bring in odd lots. Personally, I would like to see him bring in a lot more different surplus powders. Maybe they just aren't available or just to much trouble? Maybe worried about litigation???
Back to my WC867. Much to my dismay, this last box has a different lot number on it. There is also an note inside asking me to check it out and develop a load for it in the 6.5x55 and maybe the 7x57 with intermediate weight bullets. OOPs. I didn't notice it. When the WC867 was released as surplus, it was an actual surplus powder and not a take down powder. It was very close to RL22 in speed or even AA8700. This batch, of which there was only around 650 pounds of it made available is a whole different ball game. Somewhere between RL15 and W760. Maybe even faster.
If it hadn't been for the note from Tom inside the box, I wouldn't have even noticed. He was very particular to send components when he sent me powder to experiment with and if it was just a group buy, he would make certain it was all the same lot or would be very careful to call me and ask if it was OK to send a different lot.
This package was sent just before Tom passed away from cancer. He had gone through Chemo and I know how that can effect your thinking.
My reason for posting this is to warn people about how you have to be very careful when you get different lots of powders. Surplus powders are not identified with regular numbers. Sometimes, they will reissue a number and the powder will either much faster or slower than a previous lot. That is why surplus powder can be a real toss up and you need to start right at the starting load with the first couple of loads.
Commercial powders are usually very close. Maybe up to 5% variation from lot to lot.
I have seen some people insisting that powders of the same type and manufacturer should not be mixed. Well, IMHO each to his own. If it rocks your boat don't do it. Personally, I always blend modern commercial powders. Often, when you buy several cans, they will be made in as many different lots.
Several other loaders I know do the same thing. It just saves so much time and money because you don't have to work up a separate load with every lot.
If, I have a powder that is 15 or more years old, I will not blend it with a new powder, even if it is the same type. Plants building the older stuff have closed for one reason or another and new owners have bought up the brands and types of powder. There are bound to be some differences that can cause more grief than just starting over with new stuff. I don't care if I have to throw a part can out. I certainly won't try to sell it.
Usually this isn't a problem for me. I usually buy the powder in 8 lb kegs and when they get about half way down, pick up another and blend the last half with the new lot. Usually the combined lots will fit into just one keg. Saves space as well.
The big thing is, if you have finally used up the last of a can of powder you bought 20 years ago, don't just go out and buy a new can and expect to just use the same old load you've always used. You might get away with it and you might not. You more than likely won't get a Kaboom but you might end up with a stuck case or even a very light load.
The new commercial powders are better than anything available 10 years ago. They are well regulated and because they are, many of us just get to trusting or lazy. The commercial loader certainly don't. Often, the commercial loaders get their powders in huge batches, just like the military. When they don't use it up in their runs, they sell it off to the surplus markets. It just isn't worth their while to keep it, unless they have enough to do a whole run.
The same can be said for the home hand loader. If you are loading up a batch of ammo and run out of the power in one can and switch to another of the same type but a different lot, same with primers, you will likely have two separate groups on your targets with nothing to blame it on that is evident at the time. This is an often overlooked issue.
