Primer Pressure Changes in Shot Shell Loads

I

iduncant

Member
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Hi everyone,

Got a quick question on shot shell reloading.

As i'm sure many of you are aware, there seems to be quite a restriction on what's being sent to canada in terms of reloading components.
Because of this i have a question to pose to the reloading form. How important is primer selection in shot shell reloading?

I'm trying to create a load in some Remington Gun Club Hulls, i have the components i need to follow the Alliant recipe (using e3 on this one), except it calls for a Remington primer and all i've got access to is Cheddite or Federal primers.

So two questions:
If the pressure with the Remington 209P primer is at 7580 can i safely swap in a Federal 209?
If the pressure with the Remington 209P primer is at 8525 can i safely swap in a Federal 209?

I'm really looking forward to any insight you can provide.
 
If your trying to put together some light target loads, no problem, your gun can take a lot more pressure then those loads can produce. If your setting up some 3 inch magnum loads, better follow the recipe accurately
 
floriosean1 said:
If your trying to put together some light target loads, no problem, your gun can take a lot more pressure then those loads can produce. If your setting up some 3 inch magnum loads, better follow the recipe accurately
Click to expand...

Yea, these are 7/8oz clays shooting loads. That's what I figured, but i wanted to check with the reloading veterans first.
 
I never mix and match primers even shotgun target loads. They select what they do for a reason. The loads are tested.
It is so simple especially 12ga to find a combination with what you can buy or have in stock
Show me where it says in a reloading manual it is fine to do primers switches other than Cheddite noted in some??
The challenger hulls gone is good but NOW don't start playing with primers and for such a simple reload
You live in Ontario HOME of the largest stock of components in the country
Hummasons?? Epps?? Higginsons??? Use off the shelf common components they are there at your finger tips Rem 209 primers is not in that group
Not trying to kick you just trying to understand where you are going with this I'm confused

As a min contact Alliant and tell them what you are doing. They will probally approve a rem to win switch but I would be suprised a Federal is exceptable. Of all the powder combinations out there for the 7/8 Why E3 ?? and Not Clays(dot) or another proven one to give you more options vs one rem hull , one rem primer. It is just a clean red dot to most You know it has given some reloaders metering issues in the past???

One case

It had an interesting experience with e3 today...loading 7/8oz#9 for skeet...My MEC Sizemaster is set up with the red powder baffle. I filled the bottle with e3 and test weighed 5 loads at 17gr with good consistency. I then started loading. 1st drop weighed 17.2, 2nd 17.2 and then the 3rd only 8.92gr. So I dropped the shot/powder bottles and checked everything. tipped it back up and started loading again. The first 3 drops were on the money then the next was 9.8gr. I removed the powder baffle and tried again ...3 drops on the money then another 8.7gr then 2 more drops at 17+/- and one at 8.6gr then another at 17.2gr...That stuff was all over the place. No static in the air, 99degrees with about 76% humidity.

Switched back over to Clay dot and everything was fine. Any suggestions as to what went wrong?
 
Last edited:
3macs1 said:
I never mix and match primers even shotgun target loads. They select what they do for a reason. The loads are tested.
It is so simple especially 12ga to find a combination with what you can buy or have in stock
Show me where it says in a reloading manual it is fine to do primers switches other than Cheddite noted in some??
The challenger hulls gone is good but NOW don't start playing with primers and for such a simple reload
You live in Ontario HOME of the largest stock of components in the country
Hummasons?? Epps?? Higginsons??? Use off the shelf common components they are there at your finger tips Rem 209 primers is not in that group
Not trying to kick you just trying to understand where you are going with this I'm confused
Click to expand...

First off, thank you for the recommendations on the challenger hulls. Based on your info and that of the others on the forum, those hulls have found their way to the recycling bin. They'll probably do better as plastic bags than as reloading hulls.

As for the other stuff, e3 and Green Dot are what i have access too. Hummason's is fresh out of the lovely hodgdon stuff i'd rather be using, Lawry's ran out of international the day i tried to order it and Higgonsons required shipping at such an exorbitant rate that it wasn't worth it.
So, I've got e3 and Green Dot it was that, or no ammo. I'd much rather Clays, Clay Dot, or International, it just wasn't an option when I called.

So i looked up some recipes with those powders and that's when i ran into the next problem, the Rem Primers. All the e3 loads ask for rem primers in 7/8oz. Between Hummason and Lawry's they've got everything but remington. CCI Mag and Regular, Cheddite, Federal, and Winchester.

I'm just as confused as you right now, I'd love it if I could just ask for what I need and it would be available at the store. I don't know why there's still a shortage of powders. Joanna at Lawry's explained that the powder companies aren't even taking their orders right now, they just send what they send and we're stuck with it.
 
iduncant said:
First off, thank you for the recommendations on the challenger hulls. Based on your info and that of the others on the forum, those hulls have found their way to the recycling bin. They'll probably do better as plastic bags than as reloading hulls.

As for the other stuff, e3 and Green Dot are what i have access too. Hummason's is fresh out of the lovely hodgdon stuff i'd rather be using, Lawry's ran out of international the day i tried to order it and Higgonsons required shipping at such an exorbitant rate that it wasn't worth it.
So, I've got e3 and Green Dot it was that, or no ammo. I'd much rather Clays, Clay Dot, or International, it just wasn't an option when I called.

So i looked up some recipes with those powders and that's when i ran into the next problem, the Rem Primers. All the e3 loads ask for rem primers in 7/8oz. Between Hummason and Lawry's they've got everything but remington. CCI Mag and Regular, Cheddite, Federal, and Winchester.

I'm just as confused as you right now, I'd love it if I could just ask for what I need and it would be available at the store. I don't know why there's still a shortage of powders. Joanna at Lawry's explained that the powder companies aren't even taking their orders right now, they just send what they send and we're stuck with it.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should try Hummasons again as of 10 minutes ago
700x 1, 4 and 8 pounders in stock, 8 pounders of pb and 1 pounders of international and titewad all in stock
Any of those to get you started with The data shared earlier with a win 209 primer gives you all the options you need with the gun club hulls for the 24g loads until you can get what you want in the long term for components vs green dot and E3
Pg 47
http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Hodgdon Basic Manual.pdf
Just my 2 cents
Cheers
 
Last edited:
iduncant said:
3macs, thank you for all the help on this one. It's really appreciated.
Click to expand...

My friend if you were down here I would give you what you need to get you shooting and you could just replace it when the stock comes back in Ontario
As far as remington shotgun primers I bought 5000 of them some years ago because it was the only time I have ever seen them on the shelves down this way and have not since. Only use them on hunting loads
Try your best when you are putting together a shell to use what you can get your hands on easily and for me I always stash extra for times like we have seen the past year or so. Never I thought someone from Ontario would have to do that but it is clear you do lately
Let us know how your first reloads work out
All the best
 
iduncant said:
Hi everyone,

Got a quick question on shot shell reloading.

As i'm sure many of you are aware, there seems to be quite a restriction on what's being sent to canada in terms of reloading components.
Because of this i have a question to pose to the reloading form. How important is primer selection in shot shell reloading?

I'm trying to create a load in some Remington Gun Club Hulls, i have the components i need to follow the Alliant recipe (using e3 on this one), except it calls for a Remington primer and all i've got access to is Cheddite or Federal primers.

So two questions:
If the pressure with the Remington 209P primer is at 7580 can i safely swap in a Federal 209?
If the pressure with the Remington 209P primer is at 8525 can i safely swap in a Federal 209?

I'm really looking forward to any insight you can provide.
Click to expand...

With pressures like that, id be sure changing primers to a cheddite is fine, pressure might only rise about a couple hundred psi since its a hotter primer, comparable to a winchester i have found. If your that unsure, start a few grains of powder lower and check if your primer flattens out any. Ive accidently pushed some loads in my one gun quite far in my new mossburg 500, they are proofed about 18,000psi if i remember, but just for a safety margin of repeated use keep it under 11,500psi. Wad and crimping pressure also change pressures. I have also found my reccomended charge with red dot in my book was only 17.5 grains and i had a ton of unburnt powder going down the tube, found out later that the pressure was too low and brought it up to 19 grains and the problem went away.
 
I'm an avid shotshell loader both lead and steel
Also black powder, I load 2", 2.5", 2 3/4" and 3"
Now I know 3 macs will disagree but I've used the chedite
Clerinox yellow pkg 209's in all my loads
As I can't find anything Round these parts
Now I use red dot in target loads, I prefer Winchester AA
and Remington STS hulls, I've recently aquired a Lyman
#3 manual that has light 1oz loads using bullseye pistol
Powder, the load called for 17gr bullseye, a Winchester
WAA12L wad, 1oz shot and a Winchester primer
I substituted the Winchester primer for a chedite
Test fired in a cooey single shot, gun fired great
Zero pressure signs or faults, pattern was great
I'm not saying all loads are forgiving in that change
3 macs is right, I've noted in my newest manual
A same load I currently use with red dot
Listing one using a win 209, directly below same load
Same components except the federal primer 209
One load made 8800psi, the other with diff primer
Made 8900psi, so there would be a difference of sorts
Would it be dangerous to the gun? Hmm, well
Shotguns are usually texted several times hotter than listed loads
By factory, but 100psi in that particular load I believe would
Have no ill effect, as far as adding shot, and powder to make
Bigger bangs, UH UH, nope very bad idea!!!! Changing wads
Also can cause dramatic change in pressure curve
One load i viewed in Manual had same everything except
The wad, was changed from a winAA12- a jaxco windjammer
The jammer was 900psi lower than the WAA12 load
So now we are talking significant pressure rise
I agree with 3 macs, I met the man in person
Very nice guy, helped me out with some loading stuff
To be on the safer side of caution, published loads
Would be much better to follow,
 
Well, Good news everyone. I managed to find all the components that I needed. (thank you to whomever gave me the name of Lawry Shooting Sports) and loaded up a whole bunch of 7/8oz shells. Everything worked great and i'm on to loading up my second batch.

First try out with new ammo managed to shoot a 19. (please keep in mind i only started trap 2 months ago and with 1 1/8oz loads)

Got a whole bunch more to shoot this weekend and I'm hoping to finally get that elusive 25.

Thanks so much for the help on this everyone!
 
iduncant said:
Well, Good news everyone. I managed to find all the components that I needed. (thank you to whomever gave me the name of Lawry Shooting Sports) and loaded up a whole bunch of 7/8oz shells. Everything worked great and i'm on to loading up my second batch.

First try out with new ammo managed to shoot a 19. (please keep in mind i only started trap 2 months ago and with 1 1/8oz loads)

Got a whole bunch more to shoot this weekend and I'm hoping to finally get that elusive 25.

Thanks so much for the help on this everyone!
Click to expand...

Cool. So good to hear. Congrats
Now stop counting targets the 25 will come all on it's own and can take years. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom