NEW ANTIQUE FRT CHANGES and Addendum to altered cartridges handguns

HANDGUNS
6. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging only rim-fire cartridges, other than 22 Calibre Short, 22 Calibre Long or 22 Calibre Long Rifle cartridges.

7. A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges.

As long as the handgun falls with in the laws of Canada (shown above) it is a prescribed antique. A Colt SAA made prior to 1898 chambered in 44 special is an antique handgun in Canada, no matter what the RCMP want you to believe.
 
I had a feeling this was coming that is why My antiques are all in original configuration
while the law has not changed the interpretation has or so it seems .
 
tigertrout said:
I have also talked with the RCMP techs. Pretty much everything that has been reported in this thread is correct. But keep in mind, for the last 16 years the RCMP has interpreted the law to be exactly the way all of us have interpreted it as well. The fact that their legal counsel is now changing their minds as far as alterations to caliber to an antique handgun does not necessarily change the law, and the law for antique status is clear. An antique status letter from the RCMP tech unit is not mandatory in Canada and never was, if your handgun meets the requirements of the law as it is written then you have nothing to be concerned about, it is by law an antique, they just will not give you a letter. It will however be interesting if there ever has to be a debate in court of this, how will they cover their asses for writing bad law to begin with. I am told that they have no intention of trying to revoke any status letters already given out over the last 16 years, the changes to issuance of antique status letters will take place on a go forward basis.

I just got an antique status letter last week on a Colt SAA in 38 special, I don't write the law I just work within it and we all just abide by the law that is provided for us by the Government of this great country.
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This is all Correct ^^^ read this ^
its not the past there concerned about its the future from conversations i have had.
Any future requests for antique guns there just going to ask if the gun was in and antique caliber to begin with.
If theres no way to tell what its orignal caliber is then it will still get a Antique letter they may request you get a letter from the seller asking what caliber it was or if they know or dont know.
But if the gun was a 44 40 or say 45 colt then you can no longer change it to a 45 acp or 44 sp.
Thats the big change here its mainly to stop the deregistration of Pre 1898 SAA colts in Canada that are registered as 45 colt 44 40 ect.
it sucks but its not like there comeing for every gun thats been lettered in the past.
Unless your Starpuss of course LOL
 
Through asking pointed questions to the techs, it is true. They have no intention nor do they have the resources or ability to come after any guns that have letters already.
 
I know the answer to this but if they are going by what the original is can we now not convert a 41 colt to a 45 colt and still be antique? They will say no as it is not classified as antique as it can fire a 45 colt, which again suggests the law has not changed - ie a pre-1898 in 44spl, no matter the orginal calibre, is by law an antique. They appear to want to change the interpretation of the law as it suits them. So until the law is changed I can not see how they can defend this in court.
 
sbe said:
I know the answer to this but if they are going by what the original is can we now not convert a 41 colt to a 45 colt and still be antique? They will say no as it is not classified as antique as it can fire a 45 colt, which again suggests the law has not changed - ie a pre-1898 in 44spl, no matter the orginal calibre, is by law an antique. They appear to want to change the interpretation of the law as it suits them. So until the law is changed I can not see how they can defend this in court.
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I reckon they would defer to the "adapted to discharge" clause in your example.
 
dingus said:
This is all Correct ^^^ read this ^
its not the past there concerned about its the future from conversations i have had.
Any future requests for antique guns there just going to ask if the gun was in and antique caliber to begin with.
If theres no way to tell what its orignal caliber is then it will still get a Antique letter they may request you get a letter from the seller asking what caliber it was or if they know or dont know.
But if the gun was a 44 40 or say 45 colt then you can no longer change it to a 45 acp or 44 sp.
Thats the big change here its mainly to stop the deregistration of Pre 1898 SAA colts in Canada that are registered as 45 colt 44 40 ect.
it sucks but its not like there comeing for every gun thats been lettered in the past.
Unless your Starpuss of course LOL
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The potential problem will be that the FRT the authorities look up will reflect restricted for anything that is not in the old calibers like 41 colt etc. The example of the 1889 Colts (on page 2) shows a converted .357 as restricted. I would think that the FRT will trump an antique letter that does not specify calibre only serial number.
 
CMichaud said:
I reckon they would defer to the "adapted to discharge" clause in your example.
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I agree but they seem to want to use original to ban and then when that does not work converted to ban and that was my point.

The change in interpretation may make it a bit harder to get the antique letter but it is not needed for it to be an antique. If a gun can not fire any of the evil calibre and the date is right should be OK even if they would prefer that not to be true.
 
CMichaud said:
The potential problem will be that the FRT the authorities look up will reflect restricted for anything that is not in the old calibers like 41 colt etc. The example of the 1889 Colts (on page 2) shows a converted .357 as restricted. I would think that the FRT will trump an antique letter that does not specify calibre only serial number.
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what if it was originally a 41 colt? (I admit I do not know if this converstion can be done - so may not be an issue)
 
CMichaud said:
The potential problem will be that the FRT the authorities look up will reflect restricted for anything that is not in the old calibers like 41 colt etc. The example of the 1889 Colts (on page 2) shows a converted .357 as restricted. I would think that the FRT will trump an antique letter that does not specify calibre only serial number.
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The FRT lists have always been a Fuk up the Tec can trump the FRT listings so if you get your letter from a Tec that same tec can tell a cop or any LEO calling them to check that yes that gun is a perscribed antique.
Thats what happens to me with Customs all the time , they have to call CFC tecs when the FRT number comes up restricted.
Customs deals with this nightmare everyday. there pretty good about it to considering what a fuked up mess the FRT Listing are.

Almost all the SAA colts on the FRT discs always used to come up as prohibed or restricted for the last 10 years even the 455 ones.
Same with the S&W DA 44 russians tho some of the newer FRT lists are more up to date there still plenty of mistakes.
 
dingus said:
The FRT lists have always been a Fuk up the Tec can trump the FRT listings so if you get your letter from a Tec that same tec can tell a cop or any LEO calling them to check that yes that gun is a perscribed antique.
Thats what happens to me with Customs all the time , they have to call CFC tecs when the FRT number comes up restricted.
Customs deals with this nightmare everyday. there pretty good about it to considering what a fuked up mess the FRT Listing are.

Almost all the SAA colts on the FRT discs always used to come up as prohibed or restricted for the last 10 years even the 455 ones.
Same with the S&W DA 44 russians tho some of the newer FRT lists are more up to date there still plenty of mistakes.
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Hahaha...that is reassuring! I had no idea they were that messed up.
 
An antique letter is not required by law. So how can the RCMP say they are only stopping future conversions and they dont care about previously lettered guns? First off a letter was not required so how can that be used to determine grandfather status if thats the route they go? And if it was legal to convert a non antique caliber gun into an antique caliber gun yesterday and for the past decade and no laws have been changing how can they suddenly and abruptly refuse to follow their own precedent that RCMP have set through de-registering restricted guns and issuing letters to converted antiques.


Steve
 
^^^^^ Exactly what I have been saying all day!!! This is just going to cause more people to not bother getting letters! What a bunch of morons! They just want their general populace to be afraid of the state, just like the people of U.S. All it is is fear mongering
 
max-power said:
Really, the process is all the same as before. Only difference is they are going to want to verify what cal the frame was originally
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That's a joke.

In most cases it's impossible for the manufacturer to prove a specific configuration is original for a gun, even where the original records actually exist.

All the Colt records usually actually record is the bore dimention of most guns, ie) ".44/". There is no way to actually prove that the gun wasn't clambered in .44 colt or .44 russian.

If you want a real laugh, do some research on the winchester 1 of 100 and 1 of 1000's.
 
Looks like the demand for antique Colt SAA's originally chambered in 455 Eley will really ramp up now. If 455 Eley brass is hard to find, 45 Schofield brass will have to do.
 
I'm afraid their next step will be to only classify as "antique" those guns that are unaltered from the original caliber. It would be so easy to simply add 45 ACP, and 38 Spec. to the "no go" list. I'm surprised that it hasn't been done by now. Why the hell is 38 Colt on the list?
 
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