Agreed, feel free to join and send or use the points from the letters I have written. Letter writing campaign - Fill their desk, mailboxes, and inboxes with paperwork (click here).
NEW ANTIQUE FRT CHANGES and Addendum to altered cartridges handguns
- Thread starter dingus
- Start date
Agreed, feel free to join and send or use the points from the letters I have written. Letter writing campaign - Fill their desk, mailboxes, and inboxes with paperwork (click here).
OK Some news pretty much as i thought.
The French 1873 FRT is and Error the 45 acp entry if you have a french 1873 in 45 Acp you can still get a rcmp antique letter If you wanted one.
Just like the MKII and MKI Webleys that are 45 acp.
I knew it was and error.
As and example the French 1892 has been in the FRT system as all Restricted for 14 years but guys have been getting letters on the ones that are pre 1898 the whole time.
They are slowly changeing that so now ones that are pre 1898 will come up as antique.
As to that Policy i mentioned its internal policy and there going to post a finished version on there web site soon.
I do not know what the finished policy will be but theres no more surprise changes as far as i was told.
I have posted the info a few posts back the changes so far in my Posts.
Im gona talk to some more people today about the policy thing.
Anyway read my past posts everything i have been told is in there.
The french 1873s in 45 acp are all perscribed antiques.
Just like the french 1892s if you want a rcmp letter on one you need to talk to a Tec and the letter will be granted.
If you dont want a letter with your guns serial number (defacto registration ) then get a MKII webley FRT and a copy of the old French 1873 FRT which only lists 11MM but there listed as ALL Antique.
The Webley MKII FRT sheet shows 45 ACP Is AOK.
That way you can show all french 1873s are Pre 1898.
And the newer webley MKII FRT lists 45 acp as and OK antique cartridge.
Anyway that should answer the Questions to do with the FRT listing of the french 1873.
I got up at 4 am so id get thru to find out what was up.
Remember guys the FRT is a work in progress FULL Of mistakes. Customs knows not to go by everything in it as 100% right so thats how you should deal with it to.
For 14 years theres been antiques in there listed as restricteds and prohibs even when in fact there antique.
The French 1873 FRT is and Error the 45 acp entry if you have a french 1873 in 45 Acp you can still get a rcmp antique letter If you wanted one.
Just like the MKII and MKI Webleys that are 45 acp.
I knew it was and error.
As and example the French 1892 has been in the FRT system as all Restricted for 14 years but guys have been getting letters on the ones that are pre 1898 the whole time.
They are slowly changeing that so now ones that are pre 1898 will come up as antique.
As to that Policy i mentioned its internal policy and there going to post a finished version on there web site soon.
I do not know what the finished policy will be but theres no more surprise changes as far as i was told.
I have posted the info a few posts back the changes so far in my Posts.
Im gona talk to some more people today about the policy thing.
Anyway read my past posts everything i have been told is in there.
The french 1873s in 45 acp are all perscribed antiques.
Just like the french 1892s if you want a rcmp letter on one you need to talk to a Tec and the letter will be granted.
If you dont want a letter with your guns serial number (defacto registration ) then get a MKII webley FRT and a copy of the old French 1873 FRT which only lists 11MM but there listed as ALL Antique.
The Webley MKII FRT sheet shows 45 ACP Is AOK.
That way you can show all french 1873s are Pre 1898.
And the newer webley MKII FRT lists 45 acp as and OK antique cartridge.
Anyway that should answer the Questions to do with the FRT listing of the french 1873.
I got up at 4 am so id get thru to find out what was up.
Remember guys the FRT is a work in progress FULL Of mistakes. Customs knows not to go by everything in it as 100% right so thats how you should deal with it to.
For 14 years theres been antiques in there listed as restricteds and prohibs even when in fact there antique.
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Customs? How about LEAs? If the FRT is full of mistakes, they should probably concentrate on fixing it.
Maybe they should make it public and we can all help bring it up to speed.
NorthCoastBigBore
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Northwest BC (Rural) 103-I-##
Much obliged on pulling all that together. I've been so furious since last week I couldn't draft anything coherent. This will help.
FRT# 17329
Make: French Service
Model: 1873
Caliber: 45auto
Level: Non commercial customization
Legal classification: Restricted
Legal Authority: CC 84(1)"restricted firearm" para (a)
In error or not if this stays as the reference owners of the .45acp conversions wouldn't want to be found with these at the moment.
This is the type of 'error' that can have a person facing stiff legal charges. I've said it before but if you haven't already, then join the Letter writing campaign - Fill their desk, mailboxes, and inboxes with paperwork (click here).
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I am not at all surprised, I always wondered why the RCMP were allowing people to take antiques and change them to newer more modern or available ammunition.
It was only a matter of time.
The RCMP never allowed people to convert antiques to a different cartridge. It is the way the law is written that allows for this. It is only the opinion and policy of the RCMP that has changed.
- Location
- Steel Town and The Peg
It is truly sad that the RCMP have their sights set on eliminating this "interpretive loophole" when they should be directing their energies on catching bad guys, and I understand the financial impacts on sellers who profit from the sale of antique handguns, but Ron and others are right, this should come as no surprize! Owning an antique is a rare privilege, and the more clarity on what is permissible the better for anybody who owns or wants to own an antique status firearm. The RCMP should have dealt with the nebulous legal language years ago -- long before so many people opened their wallets!
I will put it this way then, the RCMP were very aware of this being done and they are closing this loop hole in the law. I like my antiques too, but I never bought any in order to convert it to another cartridge. I knew this was coming as the intent of the antique laws were never intended for you to take antiques and re-barrel or what ever to newer more modern cartridges that are not on the no-go list.
So the RCMP wanting to deal with this is just no surprise, I am not happy about either.
If anyone is tempted to not bother sending a letter, thinking your one letter won't make a difference, don't yield to that temptation. Trouble is, there might be an awful lot of fellows thinking that. Everyone needs to be sending something in and responding to the PM we all got from CGN. Every letter, every email counts.
Not that I own one of these French 1873's but what about the people that do and had an RCMP antique letter for them prior to this.
Their antique letter is now trumped by this?
Sorry if this has been answered already, I think I read every page of this thread.....
Told you so type statements dont really help the cause bud. This was not a "loop-hole" the RCMP interpreted the law the same way we did and set the precedent. They have now reversed their decision leaving all of us owning these guns in a legal mess. They have also set a new precedent in that they can simply change how they interpret a law without an actual change in the law and reclassify guns based on that. This is a very concerning chain of events. Wait for it to happen to bullpup stock rifles, 10 round LAR mags, etc etc..
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Well they can say what they like on the phone, it's what they put in writing that matters. People are calling in and getting assurances of honoring previous letters, but the word of the tech on the phone means nothing in a court of law unless it's on the stand being used against you (then they're the experts). There is no legal precedence, there is no public notification, no memorandum or public posting that anyone is aware of, just a change of internal policy that is now being upheld with CBSA and effecting antique FRT #'s.
Action by our government is required, don't allow the current rifle reclassifications to overshadow the antique pile of manure that has developed. I'll just keep hammering it home as this campaign also includes antiques; join the Letter writing campaign - Fill their desk, mailboxes, and inboxes with paperwork (click here).
I am writing and emailing and posting on social media and whatever else I can do to try and help our efforts against all the changes of the last few days, whether it be the Swiss Arms, Cz's or Antiques.
I am not going to stop until we are successful in our efforts.
We need new legislation.
I am not going to stop until we are successful in our efforts.
We need new legislation.
The FRT have listed ALL French 1892s as Restricted for 14 years there just now getting around to changeing them.
Yes even the pre 1898 ones. So why was no one worried about that before today, they just applyed for a letter on the pre 1898 ones.
The FRT numbers on dozens of antiques have them listed as prohibs and restricted the entire thing is a mess full of mistakes. includeing the french 1873s in 45 acp.
some of you are acting like the FRT data base was all perfect with every gun in its correct class right from the start that is just not the case at all.
Anyone even a cave man can show a court or any LEO that the FRT system is wrong because theres enough correct listing in there to show and compare like a webley MKII in 45 acp.
Tho if we just ignored the entire RCMP CFC system and just went by the Law which is SOR /98 -464 and use the cartridge list that we have always used we might be better off.
Rcmp letter is defacto registration. RCMP letter is not required by law never has been. they just come in handy for customs or guys who like to bush pack makes them feel better but just remember it says right on the RCMP letters this letter is granted "based on the info that was supplied"
So lets face it the letters are not as good as most think.
,I have and antique belgian gun with no antique letter based on the guns markings and cartridge it chambers the gun has no maker or serial number but no one is argueing its not antique or perscribed antique it is what it is and antique pre 1893 handgun...
I think if we just make sure our guns meet the requirements of the "LAW" in Age and Caliber then we should be Ok.
Maby im way off but you can not rely on "ALL" the FRT listings when it comes to antique handguns at least not in the last 14 years.
I think if they change the List of cartridges on the NO list by adding some thats when the real troble starts.
But that would be changeing the laws not just policy. It will happen one day in some way thats why its called gun control.
If you have a copy of the law (Cartridge lists) and some proof your gun is pre 1898 thats really all we should need.
But as far as the FRT listing being incorrect on some handguns Customs and myself has been dealing with that for years.
But keep writeing letters do whatever you think will put presure on them to drop this whole thing its all a mess just more of a mess now, thats my 2cts
Anyone know what happened to NO FAC .Com in Red deer AB ? he was charged with abuch of offences and had over 100 antique handguns taken away. 3 or 4 years ago now.
I have never herd a word about this.
Yes even the pre 1898 ones. So why was no one worried about that before today, they just applyed for a letter on the pre 1898 ones.
The FRT numbers on dozens of antiques have them listed as prohibs and restricted the entire thing is a mess full of mistakes. includeing the french 1873s in 45 acp.
some of you are acting like the FRT data base was all perfect with every gun in its correct class right from the start that is just not the case at all.
Anyone even a cave man can show a court or any LEO that the FRT system is wrong because theres enough correct listing in there to show and compare like a webley MKII in 45 acp.
Tho if we just ignored the entire RCMP CFC system and just went by the Law which is SOR /98 -464 and use the cartridge list that we have always used we might be better off.
Rcmp letter is defacto registration. RCMP letter is not required by law never has been. they just come in handy for customs or guys who like to bush pack makes them feel better but just remember it says right on the RCMP letters this letter is granted "based on the info that was supplied"
So lets face it the letters are not as good as most think.
,I have and antique belgian gun with no antique letter based on the guns markings and cartridge it chambers the gun has no maker or serial number but no one is argueing its not antique or perscribed antique it is what it is and antique pre 1893 handgun...
I think if we just make sure our guns meet the requirements of the "LAW" in Age and Caliber then we should be Ok.
Maby im way off but you can not rely on "ALL" the FRT listings when it comes to antique handguns at least not in the last 14 years.
I think if they change the List of cartridges on the NO list by adding some thats when the real troble starts.
But that would be changeing the laws not just policy. It will happen one day in some way thats why its called gun control.
If you have a copy of the law (Cartridge lists) and some proof your gun is pre 1898 thats really all we should need.
But as far as the FRT listing being incorrect on some handguns Customs and myself has been dealing with that for years.
But keep writeing letters do whatever you think will put presure on them to drop this whole thing its all a mess just more of a mess now, thats my 2cts
Anyone know what happened to NO FAC .Com in Red deer AB ? he was charged with abuch of offences and had over 100 antique handguns taken away. 3 or 4 years ago now.
I have never herd a word about this.
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Nobody is safe, the antique class has been under threat of being restricted before the SAA. How long that takes depends on keeping the Turd and dips out and fighting for every inch of ground the techs try to claim. To protect your 455 webley tomorrow, write a letter for the SAA guys today even if you don't own one. Write a letter and ask for the antique class regs to exclude cartridge restrictions. Push back and lets get simple regs with a cutoff year.
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Mine sent me a canned letter didnt even reply himself tho my MP is John Duncan ex indian affaris guy (you remember him) kinda dopey and slow to respond to questions.
Good work on your part tho thats great.
I think the MPs that are new and dont have enough years to get there pensions will work harder for gun owners the smart thing to do would be get a list of all the CPC MPs that need the next ellection win to get enough years for there pensions i think they will fight harder.
Maby not ? but its human nature or Government nature at the very least
