Side by Side Shotgun

Everyone has different tastes and budgets when it comes to sxs's for me entry level on a sxs or a good deal on a used one would start at $2000-$2500 and likely be more like $3000-$6000 and those are not even at the high end yet .
 
Well - You need to refine your needs.
- If you want to fire modern steel shot loads, eg 3 in?
- If you want to shoot clays with an open choke?
- If you want to shoot doubles, like in skeet?

You need a modern gun with interchangeable chokes, and a single trigger. That rules Tradex out. Your left with CZ, Baikal etc. Cant comment on the CZ. I have a Baikal, it fits the bill, albeit with a heavy trigger pull - common on these guns.
 
Thank you all for the feedback!

I ended up buying a really nice looking Brno from tradeex for $300... Exactly what I wanted! Arrived yesterday in a timely manner btw - will do business with them again...

One day I will pony up the $3000+ on a nice sxs... when I'm closer to retirement ;)

Again - thank you all for the feedback! I truly appreciate it!

But to answer some of your questions, I'm just using led shot in this for a some fun skeet with friends... nothing fancy! 2 3/4 led is really the only ammo I can feed this gun apparently... it looks like steel shot is not recommended as the barrels are not strong enough? I'm ok with this though! I'm sure if I need to shoot a duck or 2 here and there, a couple of rounds of steel shot will be fine...

I did look at the Baikal actually... new ones are very expensive for my wallet! (actually... maybe it was Merkel I'm thinking of...)
 
I bought an old sxs at a gun show in Edmonton last month. Cant really find much info on it. it's a 12ga 30" barrels, made by FN. We emailed FN and they said was made Aug 1923. Paid 500.00 for it. It's hammerless. Bought it cause the girl friend wanted an old sxs. We did fire a few shots, but am concerned withs its age that it can handle factory target loads. Not Damascus barrels, or it doesn't look like, and they seem to have a very different look.
 
XSlor said:
Thank you all for the feedback!

I ended up buying a really nice looking Brno from tradeex for $300... Exactly what I wanted! Arrived yesterday in a timely manner btw - will do business with them again...

One day I will pony up the $3000+ on a nice sxs... when I'm closer to retirement ;)

Again - thank you all for the feedback! I truly appreciate it!

But to answer some of your questions, I'm just using led shot in this for a some fun skeet with friends... nothing fancy! 2 3/4 led is really the only ammo I can feed this gun apparently... it looks like steel shot is not recommended as the barrels are not strong enough? I'm ok with this though! I'm sure if I need to shoot a duck or 2 here and there, a couple of rounds of steel shot will be fine...I did look at the Baikal actually... new ones are very expensive for my wallet! (actually... maybe it was Merkel I'm thinking of...)
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You best be careful. I have 3 Brnos. All mine have tight chokes. Firing a few shots of steel could bulge the barrels if yours is choked the same way. I have never used mine for waterfowl but I think if you had the chokes opened up there would not be a problem shooting steel . I would use #3 or #4 steel shot.
 
crfx04 said:
I bought an old sxs at a gun show in Edmonton last month. Cant really find much info on it. it's a 12ga 30" barrels, made by FN. We emailed FN and they said was made Aug 1923. Paid 500.00 for it. It's hammerless. Bought it cause the girl friend wanted an old sxs. We did fire a few shots, but am concerned withs its age that it can handle factory target loads. Not Damascus barrels, or it doesn't look like, and they seem to have a very different look.
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We need to see the proof marks on the bottom side of the barrels (barrel flats). One must remember that smokeless loads today are different than years ago. Target loads can still generate fairly high pressures so that's why it's a good idea to see the proof marks. Also, the gun could have short chambers for 2 1/2" shells. Another thing to consider is that the wood is 90 years old. Excessive recoil could cause cracking of the stock. Usually in guns this old, I always shoot light loads of 2 1/2" even if the gun is chambered for 2 3/4".
 
gunsaholic said:
We need to see the proof marks on the bottom side of the barrels (barrel flats). One must remember that smokeless loads today are different than years ago. Target loads can still generate fairly high pressures so that's why it's a good idea to see the proof marks. Also, the gun could have short chambers for 2 1/2" shells. Another thing to consider is that the wood is 90 years old. Excessive recoil could cause cracking of the stock. Usually in guns this old, I always shoot light loads of 2 1/2" even if the gun is chambered for 2 3/4".
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that's some good advice, I may email FN for more info as they did reply the first time.

none the less its a cool old gun I think, and made the gf pretty happy
 
BRNO are well made guns, but as gunsaholic says, you have to look at the chokes. A lot of TradeEx guns are listed as having FULL/FULL or FULL/MOD but you really need to measure the actual constriction to know if the gun is safe for steel. If you are just planning to get out for ducks the odd time, there are non-toxic loads designed for older guns. They are expensive, but it sounds like you wouldn't be shooting much volume with them.

Kent Tungsten Matrix, Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles, etc. Take a look at those as options.
 
rhino62 said:
You might the following review of the Baikal interesting.

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/gunreviews/shotguns/532133/Baikal_MP43_E1C_shotgun_review.html
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Thank you for that no-nonsense review.
I'd like to add, I once had one of these in the pre-steel days of Southern Saskatchewan.
The longest shot on 'small game' was this Baikal SxS model IJ58 something or other. 80 yards on a moving jackrabbit using the 2 3/4 shell of 0 buckshot. One pellet in the nearest hip another to the base of it's neck.
I was impressed.
 
Nothing wrong with a Baikal shotgun. They are well built where it counts and you won't worry if you get a nick in the wood. I think they are great gun for the money. And yeah, that review is excellent and gets right to the point. The Baikal is an honest gun and like the the article said; where it matters they are more than adequate.
 
Cintax said:
BRNO are well made guns, but as gunsaholic says, you have to look at the chokes. A lot of TradeEx guns are listed as having FULL/FULL or FULL/MOD but you really need to measure the actual constriction to know if the gun is safe for steel. If you are just planning to get out for ducks the odd time, there are non-toxic loads designed for older guns. They are expensive, but it sounds like you wouldn't be shooting much volume with them.

Kent Tungsten Matrix, Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles, etc. Take a look at those as options.
Click to expand...

(and thank you gunsaholic)

Good advice. How do I measure the chokes accurately? If I recall correctly, they were labeled as improved modified? I may actually just use some of those non-toxic loads you speak of though just to have on hand in case. I really don't plan on hunting much with it...

Can someone shed some light on what makes it safe or unsafe to run steel shot through it? If I was to purchase another sxs for steel shot, what am I looking for?
 
Steel does not compress as it passes through the choke and because the steel does not compress you can have two things occur. First, there could be damage to the barrel itself as the shot could deform the barrel. Secondly, it is also possible to have 'blown' patterns.

You can roughly measure the exit diameter using a brass bore gauge but honestly, the best would be to have the constriction measured by a gunsmith. The difference between the diameter of the bore and the exit diameter will give you your constriction. A general rule is not to shoot steel through anything more than what would be equivalent to a MODIFIED choke. I believe the typical constriction for a modified choke in 12 gauge is around 0.20 but like I said, this varies. You mentioned Improved Modified which will be someplace between Modified and Full. I wouldn't shoot steel through that gun.

I would think that most modern side by sides would be good for steel but that is something best confirmed with the manufacturer. If you purchase a shotgun rated for steel make sure you are using chokes that are also related for steel (assuming it isn't a fixed choke gun).
 
Cintax said:
Steel does not compress as it passes through the choke and because the steel does not compress you can have two things occur. First, there could be damage to the barrel itself as the shot could deform the barrel. Secondly, it is also possible to have 'blown' patterns.

You can roughly measure the exit diameter using a brass bore gauge but honestly, the best would be to have the constriction measured by a gunsmith. The difference between the diameter of the bore and the exit diameter will give you your constriction. A general rule is not to shoot steel through anything more than what would be equivalent to a MODIFIED choke. I believe the typical constriction for a modified choke in 12 gauge is around 0.20 but like I said, this varies. You mentioned Improved Modified which will be someplace between Modified and Full. I wouldn't shoot steel through that gun.

I would think that most modern side by sides would be good for steel but that is something best confirmed with the manufacturer. If you purchase a shotgun rated for steel make sure you are using chokes that are also related for steel (assuming it isn't a fixed choke gun).
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I refrained from buying the cheapest new sxs I could find - stoeger. Any comments on these rifles?

Thank you for that understanding though!
 
Regarding your chokes on your Brno. Improved modified is next to full. However, many European guns are choked tighter than North American guns so even though it might be improved modified, that could be more like full to extra full by North American standards. The only way to know what a choke is throwing for sure is to test it on a pattern board. Even when opening chokes up, this is the most accurate way to do it but most gunsmiths today probably just run a certain sized reamer down the muzzles.
When measuring your chokes at the muzzles with a caliper, you still need to know what the bore diameter is to know what the chokes are. The bores could be anywhere from .719 to about .750. The bore diameter might be marked on the barrels but that doesn't mean that's what they still are. Most people don't have a bore measuring gauge so it's something a gunsmith could do if you really wanted to know.
As far as new inexpensve SxS's , I had a CZ and it was a nice gun for the money. Yildiz are supposed to be good value as well. While Baikals are tough guns, the fit/finish is not as good as the CZ or Yildiz.
Below is some info on the Brno shotguns. They are great value for the money in this country. It would cost a fair bit to make the same gun today with chopper lump barrels, hidden third fastener, and a true sidelock that was all hand fit.
 
Well - The issues are several:

1) The tight choke may cause the barrels to be damaged with steel shot (some manufacturers qualify their older guns...)
2) Even if qualified, the tight choke may spray the pattern (very common)
3) Those shotguns have chromed bores - making them difficult to ream out to a lesser choke.
 
Well I guess up add my 5 cents, being pennies don't exist
And 2 cents don't mean much lol
Now depending on what you want, do you want a vintage
Rare piece?? Or a simple plain Jane sxs that goes bang?
Hammered or hammerless? Damascus or fluid barrels?
All are factors determining values,
Now I have a virtually as gd as they get Iver Johnson
Sxs Hercules 2 3/4" chambered , full/mod chokes
32" barrels, gun is prob worth in the 600$ plus range
I also bought a husqvarna under lever sxs 12 gauge
For 165$ plus tax and shipping, in great shooter cond
Will shoot modern Ammo and u get the antique look
At a modest cost, Tradex gives very gd detailed
Descriptions, and photos, go through there list and
Narrow it down to a few guns, then choose one for you
Tradex has been very gd to me over the last few purchases
And I'd gladly buy another, I recently added a 20 gauge
To my sxs family stoeger uplander and I'd say it's a
" go bang " gun, will shoot steel ammo, will shoot magnum
Turkey loads, has choke tubes, and don't look half bad
But u get what you pay for, all guns have faults, and
When dealing in doubles, remember , twice as many parts
To break lol, in general, you shouldn't have issues finding
A half way decent sxs for 500$
 
HUNTERROD said:
Well I guess up add my 5 cents, being pennies don't exist
And 2 cents don't mean much lol
Now depending on what you want, do you want a vintage
Rare piece?? Or a simple plain Jane sxs that goes bang?
Hammered or hammerless? Damascus or fluid barrels?
All are factors determining values,
Now I have a virtually as gd as they get Iver Johnson
Sxs Hercules 2 3/4" chambered , full/mod chokes
32" barrels, gun is prob worth in the 600$ plus range
I also bought a husqvarna under lever sxs 12 gauge
For 165$ plus tax and shipping, in great shooter cond
Will shoot modern Ammo and u get the antique look
At a modest cost, Tradex gives very gd detailed
Descriptions, and photos, go through there list and
Narrow it down to a few guns, then choose one for you
Tradex has been very gd to me over the last few purchases
And I'd gladly buy another, I recently added a 20 gauge
To my sxs family stoeger uplander and I'd say it's a
" go bang " gun, will shoot steel ammo, will shoot magnum
Turkey loads, has choke tubes, and don't look half bad
But u get what you pay for, all guns have faults, and
When dealing in doubles, remember , twice as many parts
To break lol, in general, you shouldn't have issues finding
A half way decent sxs for 500$
Click to expand...

Yeah - I ended up purchasing a BRNO sxs. I got it about a week ago now and she's in really nice condition! I'll post details of it tonight. I was planning on just shooting lead shot through it. I want to keep it as intact as possible.
 
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