LCW 7.62x39 Nail Test

For what it is worth, I ran some of the LCW 7.62 FMJ through one of my rifles about a month ago. I cleaned the barrel and the action but I didn't touch the gas system. Took it apart this morning and no signs of any rust. Granted it was under pretty low humidity. From the link I posted above it seems there is quite a bit of controversy about a lot of the non-corrosive surplus.
 
Just curious. Do we know the composition of the nails?
I've had "galvanized" nails leave rust lines when laying on a wet surface.
 
bscout said:
Just curious. Do we know the composition of the nails?
I've had "galvanized" nails leave rust lines when laying on a wet surface.
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I think that is a fair point but he used the same nails with other ammunition and repeated the test.

Looking back at the OP, the other ammo was brass case? I'm wondering what another non-corrosive steel cased ammo would do.
 
CV32 said:
mobusten, I just want to say that I appreciate the time and effort you have taken to do this test, and speaking only for myself, it seems pretty convincing absent any other evidence or explanation.
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I agree and also add my thanks to mobusten. It is now incumbent on Canada Ammo to deal with this issue. A 2011 lab report on the testing of a batch of LCW ammo back then does not apply to this particular ammo at this time. I am certain that Canada Ammo has not knowingly sold ammo with corrosive primers under the name, and at the price of non-corrosive, but serious doubts about this ammo have been raised and must be faced.

I recommend to CanAm that you have a lab test done on this current lot of LCW and that you consider checking out the actual composition of the primer chemicals possibly by using the method outlined in my #114 post on this thread.
 
bluebell said:
I agree and also add my thanks to mobusten. It is now incumbent on Canada Ammo to deal with this issue. A 2011 lab report on the testing of a batch of LCW ammo back then does not apply to this particular ammo at this time. I am certain that Canada Ammo has not knowingly sold ammo with corrosive primers under the name, and at the price of non-corrosive, but serious doubts about this ammo have been raised and must be faced.

I recommend to CanAm that you have a lab test done on this current lot of LCW and that you consider checking out the actual composition of the primer chemicals possibly by using the method outlined in my #114 post on this thread.
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We have not found a lab to do the chemical testing in Canada. The standard test for corrosive primers is the nail test, which we have performed on numerous occasions with the same results.

FWIW all Ukrainian and Russian plants use the same primers from Murom.

We are more than happy to face any issues, and have. Given the political issues in UA, it may all well be moot soon.
 
CanAm said:
We have not found a lab to do the chemical testing in Canada. The standard test for corrosive primers is the nail test, which we have performed on numerous occasions with the same results.

FWIW all Ukrainian and Russian plants use the same primers from Murom.

We are more than happy to face any issues, and have. Given the political issues in UA, it may all well be moot soon.
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Now we may be getting somewhere. I 'googled' Murom primers and learned that their "non-corrosive" primers, when fired, produce lead, sulphur dioxide(SO2), barium oxide, antimony oxide, and carbon monoxide(CO).

Now, SO2 + CO + H2O (from water vapor) could yield H2SO4 which is sulphuric acid

This would, no doubt, be very dilute, but could explain the corrosion on a nail exposed to a fired primer and fairly high humidity.

If this is the case, the ammo should be considered to be mildly corrosive.
 
bluebell said:
Now we may be getting somewhere. I 'googled' Murom primers and learned that their "non-corrosive" primers, when fired, produce lead, sulphur dioxide(SO2), barium oxide, antimony oxide, and carbon monoxide(CO).

Now, SO2 + CO + H2O (from water vapor) could yield H2SO4 which is sulphuric acid

This would, no doubt, be very dilute, but could explain the corrosion on a nail exposed to a fired primer and fairly high humidity.

If this is the case, the ammo should be considered to be mildly corrosive.
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There is no sulphur in their regular primers, there may be in their heavy metal free primers. What is your source?
 
CanAm said:
The "read more" takes me to a PDF on the heavy metal free primers
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I found a Word doc there that had this table:

Non-corrosive primersLeadSulphur dioxideBarium oxideAntimony oxideCarbon oxide
The weight of products educes with one shot, mg
51,25280
The limit permissible concentration of the air according to Russian norms, mg/m[SUP]3[/SUP]0,010,50,10,530
The volume of the pure air which is necessary for permissible concentration, m[SUP]3[/SUP]5002,45042,7
 
I think the best way to put paid to this is:

We guarantee that LCW ammo sold by us is non-corrosive, up to and including product refund and firearm replacement.
 
CanAm said:
I think the best way to put paid to this is:

We guarantee that LCW ammo sold by us is non-corrosive, up to and including product refund and firearm replacement.
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That's good enough for me. My nail test has not yielded any rust and it has been more than a week since the test. My rifle had also shot LCW a week ago and has yet to show any rust.
 
I don't think anyone can ask for anything more from a retailer than that. Well done.
CanAm said:
I think the best way to put paid to this is:

We guarantee that LCW ammo sold by us is non-corrosive, up to and including product refund and firearm replacement.
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CanAm said:
I think the best way to put paid to this is:

We guarantee that LCW ammo sold by us is non-corrosive, up to and including product refund and firearm replacement.
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Thanks CanAm, I received my case last week and can't wait to hit some paper!
I have huge respect for the way CanAm has gone above and beyond to make us all happy, will gladly order from CanAm again and see if they have what I want in stock before looking at other retailers.
 
Hopefully that will satisfy the CGN wolf pack that'll have to hunt another sponsor. No wonder other CGN sponsors need a break from here.
CanAm said:
I think the best way to put paid to this is:

We guarantee that LCW ammo sold by us is non-corrosive, up to and including product refund and firearm replacement.
Click to expand...
 
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