Talk me out of a Kimber Montana 84

Bowie said:
Did you ever get around to shooting formal 100 yard groups on paper with it before you sold it? I'm not trying to be argumentative, but rather am curious to its true accuracy potential.
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Not taken that way at all, I shot our painted steel gongs with it and two rounds would fall comfortably inside 1", the third would open to 1.5-2"". The ammo was Federal Gold Match 168gr HP, so not hunting ammo, but what I had on hand. So I would call it MOA for two rounds, but the third strays, understandable given the barrel weight, and makes no difference for hunting. Didn't find this scientific enough to write a part II on, so left it at that, I would call it a perfectly accurate hunting rifle- startlingly so when you consider it's sub-5lb weight. If I was patient and didn't mind waiting out an ultralight barrel's cool down, I suspect it would be deemed an honest MOA rifle. Two tight and one still plenty deadly to me is swell though, anyhow.
 
My Kimber is an 8400 in 338 win mag, I had trouble finding factory ammo it liked. That just took a little time and money to go down the list of what was available in factory ammo. No different than a couple of other rifles I have had. I have recently started handloading using the 210 ttsx. It shoots the barnes vortex 210 ttsx factory ammo moa or less when I'm shooting good. Thats better than my handloads for now, but I'm still learning. When I first got the gun I read on another forum to pull down on the forestock to get tighter groups, this is when I realized the gun could shoot. Until that point I was thinking of selling it and buying something else because the groups were unimpressive. Not a lot of guys are used to shooting a lightweight hunting rifle, I have heard of similar complaints with weatherby lightweights and have even heard of custom lightweights not performing to what people expect. I bet there's been a lot of good rifles sold off because guys just don't know to simply pull down on the forestock when shooting off the bench. A thin barrel is affected by the vibrations a lot more making them more fussy to what gets shot down them. Finding the right bullet sometimes takes longer than most guys like. As far as heating the barrel, I found my 30-06, 300 sav, 7wsm with standard barrels take longer to cool down than my 338. My 7 rem mag with a fluted barrel takes longer than all of my guns to cool down. A thin barrel heats up quicker and cools off quicker than standard contour barrels. Lightweights are pure hunting rifles, not bench guns.
 
Ardent said:
Not taken that way at all, I shot our painted steel gongs with it and two rounds would fall comfortably inside 1", the third would open to 1.5-2"".
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That's exactly the way my Kimbers are as well...my 280AI will now put the first 2 in .5" if I'm careful, the 3 round steps out to 1.75" or 2". My 308 will put 3 factory rounds in 1.5". They are pure hunting guns, not bench cannons, it also helps that the stock shape just fits me perfect...The first time I picked up my 308 Montana I was "done", just feels right. I feel that for the $, they are one of the best "bang for buck" lightweight rifles out there. My 0.02$
 
The three rifles I posted the pictures of earlier will all shoot MOA or under. The 06 84L with 168g TSX hand loads will consistently do just under MOA with three shot groups and pretty much the same using 180g Partition hand loads. The 84L in .270 will do right around the same using factory Federal Fusion 130g. My 84M in 257 Bob will do closer to .5 MOA for three shots using 100g TSX hand loads and right at MOA for five shot groups. The last one took some time to figure out but it was mostly the way I was holding the rifle, it did not like free recoiling on the bags but with a very firm grip on the rifle and forend the groups tightened up very nicely. One of my long time shooting partners proved this to me one afternoon when we were trying to figure out why it wasn't consistent. It was just me.

It has been my experience that light rifles with light contour barrels can shoot with some extra fine tuning. I have owned many that could do MOA or under for three shot groups. Five shot groups are a different story but for me these are hunting rifles. One of the most accurate rifles in my safe right now is the lightest contour barrels I own and the slimmest barrel I have ever owned. It is a custom Winchester model 70 in .270 bought from RickF that was built by Bill Leeper and at the muzzle it is .533. And no, it is not a custom barrel, just a turned down Winchester barrel that is right around 65 years old.
 
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jpappy said:
Not a lot of guys are used to shooting a lightweight hunting rifle, I have heard of similar complaints with weatherby lightweights and have even heard of custom lightweights not performing to what people expect. I bet there's been a lot of good rifles sold off because guys just don't know to simply pull down on the forestock when shooting off the bench. A thin barrel is affected by the vibrations a lot more making them more fussy to what gets shot down them. Finding the right bullet sometimes takes longer than most guys like.
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This I can mostly agree with but would word it different. I bet there are a lot of light weight rifles sold off simply because people wont take the time to learn to properly shoot them or do the time consuming load development to get a light weight fine tuned.
 
an to be fair, as a hunting rifle it needs only to be most accurate over 2 shots in my opinion, as most of us who want a lightweight backpack/trekking rifle can mostly place the bullet in the right spot the first time and sometimes the critter stand for another if not will bolt an a 2nd shot is not possible... but shot placement is with confidence the animal is dead on its feet.

So 1.5moa is acceptable for most of my hunting rifles at 100m, with some in the moa range.

WL

selling the abolt 300wsm to start saving on a Montana 84 at least..
 
I've owned 3 Montana's.

84M .223 that would pile 3 Amax's sub MOA quite easily. And hold sub MOA to 500 yards
8400 .270 WCF that would shoot 3 shot sub MOA with 130 NBTs, 130 TTSXs, 130 Federal Factory. And hold 3 shots sub MOA to 500 yards
8400 .270 WSM that wouldn't print under 1.5" 3 shot groups at 100. But would pile 3 shots under 6"ish at 500 yards consistently. Regardless its off getting a new barrel as we speak.

The reason I say "quite easily" when referring to its abilities, is because I have a very simple...maybe even outright lazy way of reloading. I don't spend a lot of time "chasing accuracy" I usually find the pressure I want and mass produce them. Also i dont shoot off a bench. 9/10 times Im in the dirt shooting off a pack with a towel rolled up under the butt.
 
I recently picked up a 84L Montana in 280 Ackley. It was essentially NIB, having only 8 rounds down the tube from the original owner. Couldn't turn it down for $1000 with 6 boxes of Nosler ammo. Shoots 1.5moa on the initial range trip with the factory Nosler Partition ammo 160gr. Tough to find a 5.5lb rifle for any better of a price...just got to get rid of that ugly grey stock now..........
 
I came across a Kimber Montana in the Nanaimo Wholesale Spurts store last summer .. chambered in .25-06 ..
and on considerable discount because someone had slightly damaged the finish on the stock.
The mild recoil .25-06 is an excellent round for such a light rifle.

But .. because I already own a Sako Aii .243 tack-driver, I passed it by.
Of course, now I regret it.
 
Recoil is a funny thing. These light little rifles definitely move when you shoot them, but with the lack of weight seems to come a lack of momentum. In other words, it recoils fast but is easy to stop. My biggest Kimber is a .338 Win mag and it isn't nearly as bad as you might think.
 
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