Proofmarks and is it good for smokeless?

ssapach

ssapach

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I recently got my hands on an older 10 gauge double. I checked the thread about proof marks and the only one I could really compare was the "E L G" with the crown over it, which seems to put me in a post-1893 time. I also noticed the Belgian stamp for "Perron" on the gun.

I'm curious if anyone knows what some of the other marks would mean? Or if there is a way to get an exact (or approximate) year of manufacture?

Also, would this be a black powder only shotgun, or would it be ok to use smokeless loads?

IMG_1960_zps77d9ebec.jpg


In this second pic, the number at the bottom is either "10.75" or "10-75"
IMG_1961_zps7e2d5608.jpg
 
Need a clear picture of both flats and then I should be able to ID and date, but it looks to be dated 1963 and is definitely post 1924 and is safe for smokeless lead only 3" light loads.
 
It is proofed for smokeless loads that were around at the time which means it may not stand up to today's pressure loads. The 10/75 is 10 gauge and 75mm chamber length. It was made after 1924 and going by inspector's marks sometime between 1937 and 1964. There is a cursive above the X which is for the year but I can never make them out. Maybe someone else can as it will pinpoint the year.
 
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mkrnel said:
Need a clear picture of both flats and then I should be able to ID and date, but it looks to be dated 1963 and is definitely post 1924 and is safe for smokeless lead only 3" light loads.
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This is the other barrel flat:
IMG_1963_zps47975dd2.jpg


And this is the flat portion of the receiver end of the gun, if any of the markings help:
IMG_1962_zpsa21f8710.jpg


By the sounds of it, the gun should handle the same loads I use for my 1901 Winchester......which is good news, as I'm not forced to use black powder. But of course, I can still use it for fun.

Thanks for the replies and info everyone!!!
 
I can't quite tell if the symbol above the X is the Beta mark or not. If so, it is 1949.
The X is an inspector's mark for Alfred Reignier who was at the proof house from 1937 to 1964.
 
Your other newer pictures tell me It is definitely made in 1963, I have a listing of Belgian Shotgun year marks and yours is 1963. Your shotgun as I said in my earlier post is proofed to handle 3" 10 gauge lead only shot and at a regular load proof pressure of 1000kg per sq. cm. (BAR) which is equivalent to about 14,200 PSI or 4 tons. Most European SXS shotguns of this period are designed to shoot lead only shot at about 850kg per square cm. (about 10,700 Pounds Square Inch) proof pressure, so yours is stronger than most of this period.
 
mkrnel said:
Your other newer pictures tell me It is definitely made in 1963, I have a listing of Belgian Shotgun year marks and yours is 1963. Your shotgun as I said in my earlier post is proofed to handle 3" 10 gauge lead only shot and at a regular load proof pressure of 1000kg per sq. cm. (BAR) which is equivalent to about 14,200 PSI or 4 tons. Most European SXS shotguns of this period are designed to shoot lead only shot at about 850kg per square cm. (about 10,700 Pounds Square Inch) proof pressure, so yours is stronger than most of this period.
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If you don't mind my asking, what mark on the flats points to it being 1963? The mark in the chart I looked at for 1963 looks sort of like a "b" with a line under it. I didn't really think this mark looks like that plus I don't see a line under it. I thought it looked more like the Beta mark. But as I said, I have trouble making these marks out clearly so I could be wrong.
 
gunsaholic said:
If you don't mind my asking, what mark on the flats points to it being 1963? The mark in the chart I looked at for 1963 looks sort of like a "b" with a line under it. I didn't really think this mark looks like that plus I don't see a line under it. I thought it looked more like the Beta mark. But as I said, I have trouble making these marks out clearly so I could be wrong.
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The reference material that I am using to dated it shows a very similar font for the b that is on the barrel flat of this SXS. The thing that seals the deal for me is it was only in the sixties that they started commonly making them with 3" chambers and 1000 kg proof. I bet if he shows a picture of the full gun it will have a pistol grip and more modern appearance as well.
 
Although I'm not disappointed if it's a more modern gun, I'm just a little surprised.....as I thought it might have been older.

Nonetheless, I bought it to hammer on pigeons, gophers and magpies, not to collect dust and look pretty. Although I think it does look pretty....

IMG_1990_zps216dab68.jpg


IMG_1989_zps2af0114a.jpg


IMG_1991_zps6c59da79.jpg
 
Well I was sure this SXS would have a pistol grip to help control the recoil of 10 gauge loads. Also it is still 51 years old, how old did you expect it to be!

Here are pictures of a 1963 made Italian hammer SXS, this is the type of stock I thought yours would have -

IMG_5943.jpgIMG_5944.jpgIMG_5945.jpgIMG_5947.jpgIMG_5948.jpg
 

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They both look very similar actions and both have square greener cross-bolts as well, I found pictures of this 1963 Italian SXS online when I was doing a search to confirm id the Belgian gun above.
 
I sort of expected pre-1950's for age. Didn't think anyone made hammered 10 gauge for anything smokeless. I figured when I put the want ad out there for a hammer gun I'd get something I could only use black powder in......or "should" only use BP in.

Newer is better honestly. If I could have walked into a store and bought a 10 gauge double with hammers, I probably would have by now.

Again, thanks for all the info on this one!
 
mkrnel said:
Not sure if you mean the Italian or Belgian guns, but don't forget the Belgian gun has the post 1924 stamp and more modern 75 cm chambers and 1000 kg proof.
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I was referring to the Belgian gun as you had speculated that it would probably have a pistol grip and look modern. I think it has an "older appearance" to it but I suppose looks are a hard thing to judge age by.
 
I went back and checked my reference tables and it could also be 1929 dated, but the longer chambers and higher proof seems to tell me that this would have been uncommon for that period.
 
mkrnel said:
I went back and checked my reference tables and it could also be 1929 dated, but the longer chambers and higher proof seems to tell me that this would have been uncommon for that period.
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Uncommon yes, but such guns were around. I had a 10 gauge Lefever sidelock from around 1906 with damascus barrels. It had 3" chambers.
 
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