This is weird, I need help pls

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calgarycanada

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I'm new to reloading(six months or so). I tried wet tumbling my brass. .308 came out normal/clean no issues. Then I tried tumbling big magnums and used same recipe but added little vinegar to soap and lemishine solution I used in past(maybe a stupid mistake). Something weird happened and all the cases came out with rounded shoulders. At first I thought it happened maybe coz I put cases upside down in tray(too fat for straight). I took a good case and tried it, even with firm push into the tray, shoulder didn't get damaged(tray is plastic after all). I tried full length sizing rounded shoulder brass with redding body die but shoulder didn't change.

The only explanation I can think of is chemical reaction caused it? Is it possible? Has anybody seen it happen? And final question, is it safe to use this brass? Did I just ruin 50 lapua casings(stupid me)

All the brass is from same lot. It was sold to me as once fired. I have fired few cases in past without any problem.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Here are some pics, 3 casings on left are just cleaned(still wet) & 3 on the right were dry tumbled a while ago

Another one

Here's the tray I used
 
Are the 3 rounded fired from your rifle and the other 3 unfired from your rifle ??


If that's so , it may be that your chber was cut with a worn reamer that no longer has sharp transitions and the fired cases are now formed to your chamber
 
The shoulders somewhat resemble a 7mm Vom Hofe case. I am baffled by that and while the chemicals would explain the more orange appearance (certain acids like those in vinegar separate the zinc and copper alloy that constitute brass) The most logical reason (and seems like grasping at straws) I can think for the shoulders being rounded is being stuck in the plastic holder: It appears the surface that retains the case is a puzzle piece fit to the rings on the shoulders... it's hard to imagine that much force being exerted with only the weight of the plastic holder thumping against the shoulders as it somersaults in the cleaner. How heavy is the plastic holder and is a hard ABS type plastic and how long did it spend in the wet tumbler?
 
You didn't ruin any cases. You just turned them into Weatherby's. Now you need a new rifle. You can thank me later. :D :cheers:
 
Ok, just for information, those cases came to you once fired(supposedly) and not loaded or fired by yourself, correct?

If that is how they came out of your rifle then there are machining issues.

If they came that was they could have been sized/deprimed with an incorrect sizing die or fired in the wrong rifle.

On photo 2, second standing shell from the left you can see some marks that look similar to cannelure marks.Strange.

If they chamber I guess and they have no cracks you can load em and fire em!

Deep down something tell me they were fired in the wrong rifle.
 
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ultimate_monkey said:
That ring on the shoulder would more likely from when he ran them In the body die . The plastic case does not go in the tumbler with the cases
Click to expand...

Possible: I only offered the theory as I found the information provided a bit ambiguous on that point. Yes, it isn't logical to put the case in the tumbler, but poster mentioned being a new reloader also.

EDIT: And it stood to reason that the OP would have noticed the ring in the shoulder before having put the brass through the cleaner. But difficult to know everything from what is provided. All the simple things aside, incorrect sizing die makes sense if the brass was purchased in that condition.
 
I don't see it being any sort of chemical reaction. The vinegar you added was unnecessary. Vinegar is an acid, The lemishine is citric acid. If you use too much you will get a pink discoloration to the brass caused by zinc being leeched from the brass. I have seem some extreme examples where parts are almost red, but I have never seen any deformation of the brass itself. Are the 3 good bras and 3 deformed from the same batch? what is the origin of the brass...used?, new? fired from same gun?
Something is definitely wrong judging by the pics.
 
Just missing something in the sequence in my brain.Isn't hard to do. ;) Just don't know for sure which he fired.

I guess if I(we) knew for sure he didn't fire the rounded cases then we could say for sure it was nothing he had done.Maybe just over looked when they went into the cleaner and upon closer inspection the defect was noticed.

ultimate_monkey said:
Kelly , he did say he's fired a few cases . So I would assume he bought them as once fired , loaded and shot , cleaned and noticed the rounding
Click to expand...
 
None of the cases in picture were fired by me. They all came from same source(apparently once fired from somebody else's gun)

No I'm not that novice to put the tray in tumbler(It wouldn't even fit in it haha)

Tray is not heavy, I didn't put tray on the cases but just put cases in the tray.

I can't think of anything else except chemical coz I didn't drop/abused them in any way. I used same tumbler with same amount of water etc as 308 cases (except for vinegar). I washed them with hot tap water (70 ish degrees Celsius). I have checked the remaining cases that I haven't cleaned and they all have nice sharp shoulder.
 
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none fired by you ..

did you inspect the cases before goin into the tumbler??


i guess bottom line here is , if you see no evidence of cracking on the necks shoulders, load em up and shoot em, they will form to your chamber
 
Here's another picture
Top 3 - As I bought them, not cleaned, fired by somebody else
Middle 3 - just cleaned, rounded shoulders
Bottom 3 - fired from my gun

One more thing that was different from previous tumbler load, that is number of cases. I had about 200 .308 cases in first load and only 50 lapua cases. But I left same amount of stainless media in there, close to 3 lbs. Could that be it? Maybe it was too much media for small amount of brass?

 
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ultimate_monkey said:
more info on how you tumble...

type of tumbler
how many cases at a time
how much media
how much water
Click to expand...

How could any of those factors have caused the uniform deformation shown in those pics?
According to his original post, the only difference is he added vinegar besides the fact there was less brass. I've cleaned less brass with more pins and no issues

I do think judging by the pics that there was too much acidity in the solution, but that would in no way cause the bulging
 
I have done varying amounts of brass at varying times and never will it cause something like that in a stainless tumbler, you'll burn out the motor if anything if you over load it.

They were made that way prior to you, make sure they chamber, load em and fire form them and business as usual.
 
I'll just keep them as separate lot, load and fire them. I'll report back if they behave differently from others.
I'll remember not to add any vinegar next time.
Thanks guys, as always I appreciate all the help.
 
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