- Location
- The Nation ON
The Galil also had a 50 rd magazine if required. I remember seeing some in Israel on SAR in 1994. A nice rifle and very rugged.
Who decided that 30 rounds is optimum?
- Thread starter Nelson84
- Start date
30 round magazines were around before the AK. Mp40 has 30 round magazines, MP44, 30 round magazine.
of 5.7
- Location
- Bramptonistan Burka-burka Durrp
In one US State, they can do 30rnds of 223 in a 30cal magazine clip in 1/2 a second.
some actions are naturally faster. The AK's 600rpm was after they slowed it down for control and increase the duration of mags. "Assault" type firearms are usually slower firing in fullauto, 600rpm is about ideal. A 10/22 can easily do 1100rpm. But for that quack in uniform to suggest a half second (ignoring the obvious ignorance he shows) for 30 rounds, is in the ballpark of 3600rpm. Not possible.
I wouldn't tell that to the service rifle shooters, quite a few of us do it all the time since it is a perfect height for use as a monopod. I don't think I have heard or seen any problems from guys using gear that was in at least good working condition. That being said, if your mags are getting tired, then sure the extra force applied to them may cause an issue.
30 roundmags are just a convenient size, are reliable and are a simple number to deal with logistically.
30
- because our current society works in base 10, for the same reason stripper clips were in 5/10 for full size cartridges and as far as i know only came in 10 for intermediate
- Weight and size are not overly cumbersome
- Provides an acceptable capacity for use in combat that is on par with or greater than the capacity of weapons that may be used against us at the time of design (AK 30 rounds, also other battle rifles of the time 10-20 rounds)
- spring tension reliability at the time of decision (whoever said their 35 round mag works fine, sure it works but the equation changes at 40, 50, 60 rounds and so forth. Consistently reliable long magazines are a recent development and needless to say even if it were a better choice to have 40 instead of 30 for example, we are well stuck in our ways. See also first two points)
- because our current society works in base 10, for the same reason stripper clips were in 5/10 for full size cartridges and as far as i know only came in 10 for intermediate
- Weight and size are not overly cumbersome
- Provides an acceptable capacity for use in combat that is on par with or greater than the capacity of weapons that may be used against us at the time of design (AK 30 rounds, also other battle rifles of the time 10-20 rounds)
- spring tension reliability at the time of decision (whoever said their 35 round mag works fine, sure it works but the equation changes at 40, 50, 60 rounds and so forth. Consistently reliable long magazines are a recent development and needless to say even if it were a better choice to have 40 instead of 30 for example, we are well stuck in our ways. See also first two points)
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The development of the AK is directly tied to the STG44 and shares a number of design characteristics with it.
So your statement is still incorrect, the first "assault rifle" to be chambered in an intermediate cartridge with a 30 round magazine was the STG44.
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The STG44 is the first true assault rifle, as it was influenced all other designs after. No one dispute this, its well known that Hugo Shmiser was working after the war in Soviet union. Its well known also that AK47 has no similarities with STG44. AK is totally different assault rifle. The point is when AK with its 30rd mags came on to the world scene in so overwhelming numbers that it made every other rifles that had lower capacity mags outgunned. Ever since then 30 rounders became normal capacity.
....or a 100 round Surefire
TV-PressPass
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Mountains, Alberta
Noooo thanks. The 60 rounder is clever: similar length to a stanag, fits in a double stack mag pouch, no beta-c awkwardness.
The hundred rounder means special mag-pouches and awkward prone.
Hold both of them in your hands and tell me again there are no similarities. The AK borrows from a number of successful designs, but the largest influence was the STG.
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
From that stand point we can argue that by comparing side by side SVT40 and G43. Both similar rifles and serve same purpose, both have same amount of cartridges in their mags, one influenced the design of the other, but are they the same??. No. Further more we can say that SVT40 influenced design of other firearms that are similar are they the same as SVT? No
Same with STG and AK, same but different. The only similarity between them is how they look
Same with STG and AK, same but different. The only similarity between them is how they look
The 30 round magazine came popular because of AK. Most western country at the time were content with 20 rounders. The MP44/STG44 is 30 rounder but if I recall correct, soldier tend to load down to 25 to prevent wearing out the spring -FYI the 10 round stripper clip theory wouldn't explain why STG44 was 30 rounder (It was fed from 5 round stripper clip)
7.92x33 uses the same stripper clip as the mauser, that's they they're 5 round.
The STG has no bolt hold open, so a full magazine would be difficult to insert without holding the bolt back while loading. Due to the weight of the rifle and the heavy recoil spring, this isn't practical. The STG is a straight insert magazine, interestingly enough the AR uses the same style of magazine release. Sizes and orientation are different but the AR clearly built off the STG in that regard.
The success the Germans had with the STG and the 7.92x33 influenced everyone, so the AK might be popular but it was the Germans that set the standard all others followed.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
People selling archaic ideas like this ^^^^ continue to hold back marksmanship, and encourage people to expose large amounts of their body to the very people they are trying to shoot. If the Thermold magazine is going to come up in any defensive argument, I am not interested.
GL
