XCR-L keymod + lightweight barrel, quick review...

supernova said:
Well, there's the SAN, but, well you know. I'll dig up the link to the XCR range report that broke the whole internet and one ankle. It was a heavy bbl rifle but there's no reason the light contour bbl rifles will shoot any different. These aren't high end bench rifles being stretched out to 900m so the practical limitations of the rifles design regarding accuracy far outweigh what effect bbl profile has on its overall accuracy. Accuracy reports with XCRs is always hit and miss, surely due in some part to individual marksmanship skills and RA's famed QC, irons vs. scope, ammo selection etc. Its meant as a fighting rifle first so good accuracy is a bonus if it happens. Only an inconsistency in accuracy is cause for concern.

*EDIT*
Heres the link to the range report I speak of. Click Here
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The reason that thread raised such a sh#tstorm was because the guy was getting sub moa from the XCR with factory ammo and off the back of his truck then when asked to prove it in front of witnesses he could never line up a time to go shooting. It is a very entertaining read though, definitely not the usual 2-4 moa that most people see from these rifles. I definitely wouldn't expect to get those results in an honest shoot.

You're right though, these are battle rifles not sniper rifles, they were never designed to be a range/bench toy. They do what they were designed to do very well, my problem comes with the continuous QC issues reported and the inconsistent accuracy depending on the heat in the rifle, a few shots and it starts stringing. This is due to the design of the barrel retention and is why I always ask for people to do their range reports with 5 shot groups and not let it sit 5 minutes between shots to let it cool off. This is a semi auto battle rifle, to me accuracy claims mean nothing if you wait 5 min between shots or just cherry pick the one group of the day where you got lucky.
I would really like to have a day at the range with one of these to do my own testing but I have too many 223's now and could never justify buying another. If anyone in the Edmonton area has one of the newer ones with a quality scope with at least 9 power and wants to put some different ammo through it to see what it can do let me know, I'd love to be proven wrong about the wandering accuracy of these rifles but unless I see it myself all I can go on is what I've seen them do in the past, having a guy post some wonder group that goes against what these rifles normally get hasn't convinced me of anything. I have quite a few different types of 223 and would donate some rounds to the testing.

I'm still waiting for RA to come out with a 300BLK kit and can't understand why they haven't. Sorry guys but 7.62x39 doesn't even come close and doesn't interest me in the least. If they had a 300BLK kit I might finally have to pick one up for a try.
 
Here Here!
If I still had mine I only live 5 hours away, but it has gone to a new home. I've mentioned it a lot that mine did consistent 1.25" groups @ 100 yds with hand loads and 1-4 Leupold VX-R Patrol. This was off the bench with front and rear bags, far from what the rifle was designed for. I never shot for groups with it stinkin hot but it seemed pretty consistent firing 5 rd groups at a deliberate pace with a minute or two rest between groups. I torqued the barrel retention bolt to spec however so maybe that helps. I think the stringing affects the M more than the L but with the QC RA puts out, maybe there's L's with similar issues. At any rate I feel they are like the SKS, a roll of the dice. Its a shame because it is a nice rifle and would be worth the price of admission if you knew you were getting consistent accuracy and reliability. It just can't match the price/quality ratio of the AR.


cr5 said:
The reason that thread raised such a sh#tstorm was because the guy was getting sub moa from the XCR with factory ammo and off the back of his truck then when asked to prove it in front of witnesses he could never line up a time to go shooting. It is a very entertaining read though, definitely not the usual 2-4 moa that most people see from these rifles. I definitely wouldn't expect to get those results in an honest shoot.

You're right though, these are battle rifles not sniper rifles, they were never designed to be a range/bench toy. They do what they were designed to do very well, my problem comes with the continuous QC issues reported and the inconsistent accuracy depending on the heat in the rifle, a few shots and it starts stringing. This is due to the design of the barrel retention and is why I always ask for people to do their range reports with 5 shot groups and not let it sit 5 minutes between shots to let it cool off. This is a semi auto battle rifle, to me accuracy claims mean nothing if you wait 5 min between shots or just cherry pick the one group of the day where you got lucky.
I would really like to have a day at the range with one of these to do my own testing but I have too many 223's now and could never justify buying another. If anyone in the Edmonton area has one of the newer ones with a quality scope with at least 9 power and wants to put some different ammo through it to see what it can do let me know, I'd love to be proven wrong about the wandering accuracy of these rifles but unless I see it myself all I can go on is what I've seen them do in the past, having a guy post some wonder group that goes against what these rifles normally get hasn't convinced me of anything. I have quite a few different types of 223 and would donate some rounds to the testing.

I'm still waiting for RA to come out with a 300BLK kit and can't understand why they haven't. Sorry guys but 7.62x39 doesn't even come close and doesn't interest me in the least. If they had a 300BLK kit I might finally have to pick one up for a try.
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cr5 said:
The reason that thread raised such a sh#tstorm was because the guy was getting sub moa from the XCR with factory ammo and off the back of his truck then when asked to prove it in front of witnesses he could never line up a time to go shooting. It is a very entertaining read though, definitely not the usual 2-4 moa that most people see from these rifles. I definitely wouldn't expect to get those results in an honest shoot.
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I read more of the thread to understand what you mean, but it was the challenger (Beltfed), not the XCR owner (Sharpshooter Jr) that couldn't meet up to go shooting.
 
superlative said:
I read more of the thread to understand what you mean, but it was the challenger (Beltfed), not the XCR owner (Sharpshooter Jr) that couldn't meet up to go shooting.
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Ya, the infamous broken ankle :)
It just didn't seem possible to get the groups sharpshooter was claiming shooting off the tonneau cover of his truck. I wish they had met up at a range to prove it.
 
cr5 said:
Here are the real facts.

Try IRUNGUNS, they were advertising them for $2500 and Milarm in Edmonton told me they would match that price a few months ago.
I paid $2200 for my used ACR with 12 inch barrel and Geissele super ACR trigger then sold the barrel and bought my used non restricted barrel for $300 difference between the two prices. My friend is a verifier so I got the friend price of $20 for him to fill out the one page of paperwork to have it reclassified as non restricted and he told me he would normally charge someone $60.
That's $2500 to have it non restricted in my hands ready to go.
With a new barrel why waste the couple hundred dollars extra to have a new rifle? A buddy of mine just picked up a used one for $2000 so there are deals out there and the prices are getting better all the time.
So what does that add up to? $300-$500 difference? $700 I guess if you start with both used?

If I had chosen to go with the Dlask barrel it would have been $550 for the barrel and paperwork putting my rifle at $2750 minus what I sold my original barrel for. I can do it cheaper than Dlask so that's the way I went.
My Stainless 6.8SPC barrel was purchased off Questar's site during the 15% Christmas week sale and was well under $400, I've been waiting for my $100 bolt to show up so I can have it machined to work with the cartridge.
My 300 Blackout barrel was custom built by a friend of mine for under $500 complete (Stainless McGowan blank), as soon as I finish building the new op rod guide that conversion will be finished.
I punched some numbers into the calculator and without glass I'm just under $3500 with all three non restricted barrels (add $100 once my bolt shows up). Plus my Glass, mount, and Pelican case and ya just over $4300.
So conversions, although more work to get done can be made for the ACR for less than the cost of the $700 conversions available for the XCR.

I didn't wait for Bushmaster to solve the front heavy problem and simply got a light profile barrel rather than a heavy barrel. I never really thought it was muzzle heavy though but didn't want to make it that way so that's why I jumped on the deal when I had the chance to buy the barrel I got.
Bushmaster is actually doing the opposite and the new non restricted DMR that is coming some day is going to be a tank. I would never pay for one of those.

I don't think there is a perfect black rifle available in Canada, all of them have some negatives and all of them are good in different ways.
I really liked my HK SL8-4 and even though it was more accurate than any other semi auto out there (other than a high end AR) I let it go because the ACR let me swap calibers.
I was never impressed with my Swiss Arms, the accuracy didn't live up to it's reputation and it was way too expensive for the performance it provided.
I actually think that for the money my AR180B was the best non restricted black rifle I've owned. I plan to buy that one back from my buddy one of these days.
I've shot at least 4 different XCR-L's over the years since they were released and I've shot an M as well. I like them but the number of QC issues and the lack of accuracy just won't let me buy one. They do however have some of the best customer support I've seen through Wolverine so even if you do get a problem one at least you know it will get fixed.
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$2500 USD equals $2800 CAD at current market (add on more fees if you use credit card to covert from CAD to USD)
Again, that is close to $1000 difference, not the $300 to $500 you claim.
Let's face it, a NR ACR will always cost A LOT more than a NR XCR. There is no need for you to defend the cost of NR ACR.
Your trying to justify ACR are cheaper by all these used prices and sale price etc.....if you apply the same sale prices to the XCR, XCR would be cheaper.

And yes, XCR will not be as accurate as ACR unless something is done to the design.

cr5 said:
Chart shows it but I've never seen one in Canada. I would like an M in 243 as well. Be a great deer rifle.
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That is because it is new for 2014 and they will probably show up later this year by the looks of it.
 
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