heavy tuff antiques ......

burnt_servo

burnt_servo

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I've gotten to play with a ruger super black hawk ( in 44 mag ) for a expended period of time , my 1st and still current impression is it is built like a tank , super reliable and very accurate .

in terms of antiques , which ones might stand out amoung the rest , maybe even get close to being similar in reliability to the ruger .

this is open to any caliber / barrel length ., rarity be dammed for the time being .... meaning it is going to get treated like the others .

if money was no option ( lets say max price 10-15 thousand )

and if money was a issue lets say under 5000.00
 
Theres a few antique revolvers that are tuff but the remington 1875 is a very strong gun one fellow was shooting factory 357 outa one converted to 38 sp and there was no signs of stress or frame strech mind you it was only a few 50 rd boxes but 357 is a very hi presure round i do not recomend doing that.
Keep in mind thats only with a modern made cylinder as the cylinder takes most of the presure. original 1875 cylinders cant take much at all.
Also the antique Colt Bisley Flat top Target (i have one) is a very strong frame with a replaced cylinder they can handle pretty good reloads to and some factory ammos there very rare and very expensive.
That said they can not handle as much as a ruger black hawk theres really no antique in that class.
My above examples are the strongest ones i know of is all.
Unless you get into some of the single shot pistols theres a few of them that are strong. still best to reload blowing up any antique is a bad thing they aint makeing anymore of them.

Heres one of my 1875s this gun sports a original 5 and 3/4 barrel with twist gain rifleing and a new 44 sp cylinder this gun handles all the 44 sp ammos. its a custom gun with elk grips and antique gator holster .
 
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My vote in rifles would be a Remington rolling block or a Winchester Highwall and possibly a Remington Hepburn. In Handguns, I would go for a Colt SAA as the most versatile in terms of calibers and barrels

cheers mooncoon
 
For .32 Rimfire's - The Forehand & Wadsworth DA no.32's are strong.
French model 1873/74 and 1892 revolvers are made from excellent steel and overbuilt for the cartridge they are chambered in.
Swiss model 1882's are also very strong with good quality steel.

These are the strongest gun's I have had experience with.
 
If you have 5 grand to spend on an antique, money isn't an issue. snicker. It'd be a Spencer rifle and a pair of Schofields.
 
I love my original schofields and there what i pack 99% of the time in the bush no argueing about antique status with them almost everyone knows what a schofield is.
Alot of guys only think about power! yet 800 FPS pushing a keith lead 250 grain SWC is all i need. i know my schofields will outshoot just about any other gun i have with my custom reloads i shoot under 3 inch groups at 45 Yds off a rest. right on the bullseye with a mint bored 7 inch barrel.
I have shot 44 magnums and the recoil is crazy i can never shoot them big powerfull handguns that accurate.
You have to hit what your aiming at to kill it or slow it down so i find a comfortable reload i can do way more damage rather than hope to get a lucky shot from a power house handgun thats pointing strait up after every shot.
Just my 2 cts .
while the guy with the 44 mags barrel is still in the air i have my second shot already fired with my schofield on target. Close up 800 FPS SWC can do alot of damage. ive fired into stuff to test them out, there killer reloads up close.
 
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sunray said:
If you have 5 grand to spend on an antique, money isn't an issue. snicker. It'd be a Spencer rifle and a pair of Schofields.
Click to expand...

I don't think the Spencer is a particularly good choice for a strong and easily adaptable rifle. I would not consider the action very strong but the extractor tends to sort of saw through the rim of the Spencer cartridges. It moves up and down as well as pulling the cartridge back. I think someone mentioned a Martini; the problem with them is that their action does not permit easily cleaning from the breach and limits the length and shape of the cartridge it will chamber

cheers mooncoon
 
burnt_servo said:
I've gotten to play with a ruger super black hawk ( in 44 mag ) for a expended period of time , my 1st and still current impression is it is built like a tank , super reliable and very accurate .

in terms of antiques , which ones might stand out amoung the rest , maybe even get close to being similar in reliability to the ruger .

this is open to any caliber / barrel length ., rarity be dammed for the time being .... meaning it is going to get treated like the others .

if money was no option ( lets say max price 10-15 thousand )

and if money was a issue lets say under 5000.00
Click to expand...


The key element to what you are trying to determine is the quality of steel used in the firearm. The quality of steel used in firearms improved dramatically from 1900 onward. By today's standards the steel used in anything considered an original antique is pretty weak stuff. Sure they may look stong (1873 St. Etienne for example) but they don't even begin to compare to the steel used today.

If you are familiar with the development of the 357 Magnum cartridge by Elmer Keith then you would be aware of how important the quality of the steel is. He blew up a great many guns. From the Elmer Keith Wikipedia page: "Keith's first major contribution, the .357 Magnum, was the result of handloading the .38 Special cartridge far beyond normally accepted limits, taking full advantage of the greater strength of the revolvers available in the 1920s compared to those of the late 19th century"

The SAAMI spec on a 38 special cartridge is 17,000 psi. The SAAMI spec on a 357 Magnum cartridge is 35,000 so more than double. This should give you some idea how much stronger 1920 steel (and hardening techniques) was compared to 1900. 1897 and before? Even worse.

As Dingus has pointed out there are some firearms in Canada that have modern cylinders and barrels and still qualify as antiques in Canada. They are no longer 'original antiques" but according to the law they still fall into the antique category as long as the frame is still original (made before 1897 etc.). So the frame is the weakest part of the gun. The cylinder and other components may be made of modern materials which increases their strength dramatically but you are still somewhat limited by the strength of the frame. The best of these will be of a solid frame design (like a SAA Colt) as the solid frames are much stronger than a break action like a Webley. 38 special is about as high a pressure (17,000psi) I would consider advisable in one of these modified antiques (44 special is 15,500psi) and then only with a modern cylinder. Anyone shooting 357 magnum in an antique is putting themselves and others at risk. Sure it may work for awhile but when it goes... That being said I happen to own a pair of Uberti, Remington copies like the gun pictured above and they will shoot 357 magnum all day long safely. They are also made of modern steel, frame included.

Modern Uberti Remington copy:
l1_pistols_uberti_1875_sa_army_outlaw_.45lc_55335.jpg


The 44Magnum was released in 1956 after more work by Elmer Keith. Naturally steel and hardening techniques had improved yet again. Sorry but you won't be shooting 44Magnum (36,000psi) safely out of anything classified as an antique revolver in Canada.
 
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My vote would be the 1875 Remington - Similar to the Colt but with less hype, very well built and simple. That said, you're going to pay for it.

Aside from that, the standard budget solid guns are in my opinion 1873 revolvers and, since no one has said it, 1883 Reichsrevolvers. Everyone knows the 1873 MAS revolver is built like a fridge, but chambered in the german equivalent of the 44 russian, the 1883 officer's model reichsrevolver is one of the most reliable antiques I know... darn things just don't die. Very simple, very robust with a proven cartridge that's known for both accuracy and power so much so that it spawned the 44 special and 44 magnum.
 
38 special is about as high a pressure (17,000psi) I would consider advisable in one of these modified antiques (44 special is 15,500psi) and then only with a modern cylinder.
Click to expand...

.38sp produces higher psi than .44sp but the .44 has it's lower pressure exerted over a larger area. Roughly a .44sp will produce over 10% more pressure overall vs .38sp for the same barrel length.
 
mooncoon said:
I don't think the Spencer is a particularly good choice for a strong and easily adaptable rifle. I would not consider the action very strong but the extractor tends to sort of saw through the rim of the Spencer cartridges. It moves up and down as well as pulling the cartridge back. I think someone mentioned a Martini; the problem with them is that their action does not permit easily cleaning from the breach and limits the length and shape of the cartridge it will chamber

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

the standard and wildcat cartridges that fit in the martini pack a wallop my very own wildcat should turn a moose into a fountain if it hits the heart
 
dingus said:
Theres a few antique revolvers that are tuff but the remington 1875 is a very strong gun one fellow was shooting factory 357 outa one converted to 38 sp and there was no signs of stress or frame strech mind you it was only a few 50 rd boxes but 357 is a very hi presure round i do not recomend doing that.
Keep in mind thats only with a modern made cylinder as the cylinder takes most of the presure. original 1875 cylinders cant take much at all.
Also the antique Colt Bisley Flat top Target (i have one) is a very strong frame with a replaced cylinder they can handle pretty good reloads to and some factory ammos there very rare and very expensive.
That said they can not handle as much as a ruger black hawk theres really no antique in that class.
My above examples are the strongest ones i know of is all.
Unless you get into some of the single shot pistols theres a few of them that are strong. still best to reload blowing up any antique is a bad thing they aint makeing anymore of them.

Heres one of my 1875s this gun sports a original 5 and 3/4 barrel with twist gain rifleing and a new 44 sp cylinder this gun handles all the 44 sp ammos. its a custom gun with elk grips and antique gator holster .
Click to expand...

Is that beauty antique status?
 
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