Bill c-71

sabatage said:
I can feel that the purchases of fishing pole tubes and automatic transmission fluid going through the roof. Next year the liberals will be gone and this will be amended by our next PC government. When the Nazis took political power the first thing they did was take the guns, same with Stalin, and every other dictatorship that rose to power. No free speech, no firearms to feed yourself or keep bears from eating your livestock. Creating a dependency on themselves and then taking your ways to be self sufficient is how they want everyone to be. Since Pierre sold out the Bank of Canada, and used our largest act of terrorism done by Gamil Rodrigue Liass Gharbi (name change to Marc Lepine) to impose harsh gun laws when ALL, ALL, ALL crime world wide has been declining for the last 100 years consistently.
Click to expand...
Actually the first thing the Nazis did was relax gun laws that we're invoked after WW1 but when they got well entrenched then they flipped.
 
LakeHuron said:
Authorization to transfer non-restricted firearms

23 (1) A person may transfer a non-restricted firearm if, at the time of the transfer,

(a) the transferee holds a licence authorizing the transferee to acquire and possess#a non-restricted#firearm;

(b) the Registrar has, at the transferor’s request, issued a reference number for the transfer and provided it to the transferor; and

(c) the reference number is still valid.


I hope the RCMP are ready for myself and all my friends to call daily to buy / sell / transfer our various non restricted firearms , might need to hire a few more phone operaters when the 12 of us call for the 3rd time of the day to transfer stuff around again. We're pretty indecisive...
Click to expand...

It is the "at the transferor request" that makes me question what that implies. Wishful thinking I know
 
I was told by my club instructor that my att was attached to my licence . This att law change means what exactly , I have to call for an att again ?
 
Donster 125 said:
Can someone explain 4, 6 and 7?

Does 4 mean I can’t go to my gunsmiths place of business anymore? Or I require an ATT to do so?

Does 6 mean that my shotgun and bolt gun can become restricted? What is the Governing Council?

Does 7 mean that any new AR I purchase will have special markings on them already? Or issued in a paper document?
Click to expand...
4. You will need to apply for a separate ATT to take a res to the gunsmith.

6. The power for the GiC to make your shotgun or bolt gun prohib has always existed since day one of the firearms act. In 2014 the conservatives realized that ability to move a gun into a more regulated class was always there, but there was never a power to move it down into the NR class. What the Liberals are doing is removing the ability to move guns down to NR.

If the liberals never wanted to down classify guns all they need to do is simply not do it. Likewise if they wanted the CZs and Swiss arms to be prohib all they needed to do was repeal the regs that unprohibited them.

By repealing this power they are sending a clear message that they NEVER intend to move a gun to NR, for any reason AND want to make it tough for any future government to do so.
SCDL said:
Because they REALLY CARE about petitions. Remember the Non-Restricted AR-15 petition?
Click to expand...

The time for petitions is now over. Now is the tine for protest. Soon it will be time for non compliance and civil disobedience.

LeadMonkey said:
People are missing the bite of this bill... if they had come out and said XYZ = prohib or all semis = prohib or whatever people would be hunting MP's with flaming torches and pitch forks in Ottawa.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS BY GIVING CLASSIFICATION POWER SOLELY TO THE RCMP MEANS EVERY NON RESTRICTED GUN WILL BE RESTRICTED AND EVERY RESTRICTED GUN BECOME PROHIBITED BY NEXT YEAR, THAT IS A FULL OUT REGISTRY, THERE IS NOTHING TO STOP IT AND NO POLITICAL ACCOUNTABILITY. CONFISCATION OF ALL FIREARMS WITHIN 3 YEARS.
Click to expand...

Exvept that this bill gave no such power to the RCMP. Put down the pitchfork and grab your reading glasses and read the actual bill.

Loosethoughts said:
Ridiculous. Who do I call to oppose this?
Click to expand...

Evwrybody who will listen.

This bill expands the window of personal history that the CFO can investigate in considering a license from five years to infinity. Since license applications already ask you for past conjugal partners, now they can demand your entire ###ual history, even from before when you were an adult.

LakeHuron said:
Authorization to transfer non-restricted firearms

23 (1) A person may transfer a non-restricted firearm if, at the time of the transfer,

(a) the transferee holds a licence authorizing the transferee to acquire and possess#a non-restricted#firearm;

(b) the Registrar has, at the transferor’s request, issued a reference number for the transfer and provided it to the transferor; and

(c) the reference number is still valid.


I hope the RCMP are ready for myself and all my friends to call daily to buy / sell / transfer our various non restricted firearms , might need to hire a few more phone operaters when the 12 of us call for the 3rd time of the day to transfer stuff around again. We're pretty indecisive...
Click to expand...
Best part is you dont even need to actually transfer anything and you can use your own reference number. Every gun owner should call the cfo every day and ask for reference number every day. Even if 10% of gun owners called once a week that would still be 35,000 phone calls a day.

Anyone remember great canadian gun shuffle? Here comes the remix
 
rikkards said:
Actually the first thing the Nazis did was relax gun laws that we're invoked after WW1 but when they got well entrenched then they flipped.
Click to expand...

They relaxed the law to create a military surplus after the sanctions then imposed laws on citizens helping to balloon military surplus.
 
Yes ATT is attached to our license. The only change in transport of any Restricted/Prohibited FA to any location other than residence to an approved shooting range is the ATT requirement. ATT is proposed to bring your FA to a gunsmith, gunshow or a dealer which is currently not required. I might be interpreting the proposal incorrectly though. CZ 858 and Swiss Arms has been a hot topic again. Not sure who brought the idea about the purchase of a non-restricted FA without an PAL. Which dealer would allow a non-licensed person to purchase and take possession of any firearm?


Hrsplit said:
I was told by my club instructor that my att was attached to my licence . This att law change means what exactly , I have to call for an att again ?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Onagoth said:
Looks to me like the classification of the AR cannot be changed by the rcmp.

The schedule prescribing the AR to be restricted remains in tact
Click to expand...

This isn't so. It states that they are repealing section 117.15 (4) of the criminal code which is the law keeping the AR in the restricted category.
 
Does this for any reason mean that if I bought one of these firearms before they get prohibited I could gain access to purchasing 12.(X) firearms in the future?
 
jayd911 said:
This isn't so. It states that they are repealing section 117.15 (4) of the criminal code which is the law keeping the AR in the restricted category.
Click to expand...

Yeah...this could be problematic.

So a gun could be prescribed to be a restricted firearm....but is no longer deemed to not be a prohibited firearm....

I'm a little unclear how this integrates with the definition of prohibited firearm, which in part looks to what guns are prescribed to be prohibited
 
###ual history?? What does my wiener have to do with liberals and guns??? Keep my wiener out of it. It’s mine and I use it for safe urination, daily. I will not put a trigger lock on it either. It’s safe in my gitch thank you very much. Grrrr...
 
If Alberta separated, I would consider it.

Seriously.

What annoys me the most is the Yo Yo roller coaster ride of gun laws and ups and downs. Liberal / PC flip flop and each spending money undoing what was done and over and over again (with our tax money). Reminds me of the Movie Groundhog Day with Bill Murray.

I think I started shooting Trap when I was 14, and shooting is a sport that my son and I enjoy very much.

I go to the gun club with my son and my father, and we hang out, and shoot, and hang out some more. It is like my golf, it really is. I know this isn't understood by most of the population in Canada, but it is something I love very much.

Everything I do is by the book, all shooting is done safe and legal, I don't speed, I pay for parking, I don't litter and I don't use the HOV lanes unless I have 2 or more people in the car. blah blah blah, but I keep getting penalized.

I think Swiss Arms rifles are amazing, they are amazing. I think ARs are also amazing, but in a different way. People will say you don't need an AR, or a SAN or <enter firearm name here > . My response to that is people don't need sports cars that can go 210 km/hr over the speed limit, but they exist, and I am okay with it even though accidents do happen. They are going to happen, bad things always happen and will continue to happen. People have been doing ####ty things to each other since DAY ONE!

I don't understand how anyone can think that a criminal is going to follow any of these new controls. Let me call the RCMP for my ATT before we go rob the bank.

I feel it is a death by a thousand cuts.

As a legal gun owner, someone who is a contributing member of this society, someone who pays mega taxes is criminalized every time I turn around because I appreciate Firearms.

I could go on and on, but it is bath time.
 
My understanding is that they are essentially trying to revert the status quo to what it was prior to the repeal of the LGR. With the notable exceptions referring to the 858 and SAN.

I recall when I had to get an ATT to go to my smith’s house and it was just how it was.

What concerns me the most is the uncertainty surround the AR. Will it become prohib? Will I be able to shoot it at a range? Will I be able to buy more? I was always comforted by the fact that the AR was protected by an OIC. Now it appears that they are trying into remove that OIC.

If anyone has that answer, please say so.
 
mbucky32 said:
Two things that should I consider to be the most important and I think everyone should be very concerned about:

1) The re-instituting of the LGR. It's like the Libs saying they will never bring in the NEP, but then bring in "equilization payments". Same pile of crap, just labelled differently. There is no difference between the LGR and the what's proposed in this bill in its current form. Another lib platform promise up in smoke;

2) The requirement of each firearm to have a UN identification number. Why the hell would any citizen of any country want an un-elected, foreign agency to have input, discretionary authority or any other information about citizens of a sovereign country? Don't think that that information won't be shared with the UN in some form, think again. Maybe not immediately, but at some point. No doubt that this is the first step in a litany of steps that will proceed into future generations. First, it will be a UN Identification Number, then it will be a UN ID processing fee. No doubt, at some point, the UN will have discretionary authority over gun laws of "member countries". Watch and wait.

I heard of the liberals lusting desire to have a "Central Firearms Registry" nationwide back in the mid 90's. Their ultimate goal is to have you house your firearms in a central vault and have to sign them out to take them hunting, target shooting, etc. I have no doubt its true. There is no moral or logical justification for this Act and its the first step of many to simply disarm law abiding Canadians while giving the illusion of getting tough on crime. Think beyond this act and the motives for it. I trust most of you will come to a similar conclusion - this is a long con by the libs.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about Willis. Nothing about this bill creates a registry for non restricted firearms. Nothing about this registry talks about UN identification numbers, but neither does any UN gun marking scheme either.

Yes, we need to think beyond this act. But if you said any of what you just said to anyone involved in actually passing this act, you will be doing a serious disservice to the cause. When there is a bill on the table, it makes no sense to start howling at the moon about UN conspiracies. This week, lets try to stay focused on what the bill actually says, so that we can defeat this bill, ok? Have you read it yet? Me thinks you haven't.

Sasko31 said:
Ok that was not as painful as it could have been, only thing of concern is the RCMP classification system? What is this going to mean, m14’s restricted?
Click to expand...
What wasn't as painful? DId you just finish reading the bill? Nothing in there about an RCMP Classification system. You must own an M14... Please find the time to share the same concerns and share your words of encouragement to the CZ and Swiss Arms owners whose guns really will be going prohib with this bill.

rikkards said:
From how I read it, it is only if the transferor requests it to CYA. Nowhere does it say that the transferor is mandated to initiate a reference number. I am reading if that was the case that would have been worded differently
Click to expand...

Have you read the whole bill? Actually it creates a legal duty to apply for a reference number in a couple of places.

Upon coming into force the criminal code and firearms act will read as follows.

Criminal code.
101 (1) Every person commits an offence who transfers a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm, a non-restricted firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device, any ammunition or any prohibited ammunition to any person otherwise than under the authority of the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.

(2) Every person who commits an offence under subsection (1)
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Click to expand...
So what authority does the firearms act grant for the transfer of firearms?
Here is what the firearms act will say is required for an authorized transfer after this bill comes into force.
23 (1) A person may transfer a non-restricted firearm if, at the time of the transfer,
(a) the transferee holds a licence authorizing the transferee to acquire and possess a non-restricted firearm;
(b) the Registrar has, at the transferor’s request, issued a reference number for the transfer and provided it to the transferor; and
(c) the reference number is still valid.
Click to expand...
If any one of those three conditions are not met, the transfer is not authorized by the Firearms Act and is therefore a criminal offence.
'at the transferors request' does not mean it is optional. It means the onus is on the transferor, and not the buyer or the registrar, to initiate the process to obtain one. Failing to obtain one is not only a criminal offence per S101 of the criminal code and up to five years in jail, but the new bill will also amend the firearms act so that s70 will read as follows:

70 (1) A chief firearms officer may revoke a licence, an authorization to carry or an authorization to transport for any good and sufficient reason including, without limiting the generality of the foregoing,
(a) where the holder of the licence or authorization
(i) is no longer or never was eligible to hold the licence or authorization,
(i.#1) transfers, as defined in section 21, a non-restricted firearm other than in accordance with section 23.
Click to expand...

NOTHING about this bill is optional.

15567 said:
There is no way of making sense out of foolish regulations/laws because they are only meant to deter the shooting sports and collecting interest.

One class of prohib. rifles is exempt from taking to the range because they are not as ugly to them as the others perhaps?
Click to expand...

The way to make sense of it is to grab a cup of tea, sit down, and read it. Thats the first step at least.

One class of prohib rifles is allowed to be taken to the range because too many of them unregistered, and if the pill is too big and bitter to be swallowed whole, no one will take it. The irony is some gun owners think its ###y to have a prohib license.

Onagoth said:
Statutes do not typically detail out how ministries will enforce the law. They simply state the law, and putting it into practice is up to the executive branch
Click to expand...
Ministries do not enforce the law. Nor does the executive branch. Peace Officers and Public Agents enforce the law, and the law routinely tells them how to do it.

jayd911 said:
This isn't so. It states that they are repealing section 117.15 (4) of the criminal code which is the law keeping the AR in the restricted category.
Click to expand...
Section 117.15 (4) does no such thing.



Onagoth said:
Yeah...this could be problematic.

So a gun could be prescribed to be a restricted firearm....but is no longer deemed to not be a prohibited firearm....

I'm a little unclear how this integrates with the definition of prohibited firearm, which in part looks to what guns are prescribed to be prohibited
Click to expand...

Yes its confusing, because its complex. The law is especially complex because its poorly written.

ARs are restricted because the definition of restricted includes firearms PRESCRIBED as such, and the AR is so prescribed.

What Section 117.15 (4)did was close a loop hole whereby a firearm could be both restricted and prohibited at the same time. In theory, it should be impossible for a firearm to fall into multiple categories, however the CZ858s are prohibited because they are a converted full auto, and they are restricted or Non-restricted based on barrel length because they are prescribed as such. Since the Liberals are planning on repealing the regulations prescribing them as NR and Res, they will revert back to a true prohibited status, and S117.15(4) becomes superfluous.

Woodly said:
So, can't buy guns off friends anymore without calling and waiting on hold for this bull####? yay.
Click to expand...

Sure you can. It just won't be legal any more. But this new law regarding reference numbers is entirely unenforceable for any firearm purchased before this bill comes into force.
 
Donster 125 said:
My understanding is that they are essentially trying to revert the status quo to what it was prior to the repeal of the LGR. With the notable exceptions referring to the 858 and SAN.

I recall when I had to get an ATT to go to my smith’s house and it was just how it was.

What concerns me the most is the uncertainty surround the AR. Will it become prohib? Will I be able to shoot it at a range? Will I be able to buy more? I was always comforted by the fact that the AR was protected by an OIC. Now it appears that they are trying into remove that OIC.

If anyone has that answer, please say so.
Click to expand...

Read the Bill. They are not reverting to the status quo of anything. Not to mention that "revert" to the "status quo" is a literal impossibility.

THe LGR is still dead. There are some new requirements regarding record keeping that will be as burdensome and onerous, or MORE than the LGR was, while failing to actually provide something of value to law enforcement, which the registry kind of did a little bit in about 3% of firearms traces.

You will need to apply for an ATT to go to the gun smith, but you will still have the automatic ATT as license conditions to go to the range.

There is no more uncertainty surrounding the AR than there was before this bill. This bill changes nothing about ARs. HOWEVER if gun owners let the CZ and Swiss arms owners quietly go under the bus, then the liberals will be emboldened and AR owners could most certainly be next.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom