Heckler & Koch fights for survival

greentips said:
The amount of ignorance presented by these US articles is staggering.

Obviously they don't read the bloody financial statements ( or maybe these US writers do not know how to read financial statements? )

I scanned through their 2018 FR their interest expenses had gone down. Their overhead seems to be under control Their revenue increased but COS increased by the same amount - this is because of bottleneck in parts delivery and the product mix, and they had to pay more to get it done. In other words, they have more business than they can handle so they end up losing money on some of these sales to get things out of the door just to fulfill contracts.


Hence in the first QTR the CEO talked about improving manufacturing efficiency. And I suspect part of this efficiency solution is to reduce product mix, this means less choices for civilian products and bigger min. order or higher price if purchasers wants their own configurations.
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r34skyline said:
Seems durham has upped their prices. I grabbed mine for 3299 from bullseyelondon.

If you get a dd or bcm or a colt canada and add the features the mr223a3 comes with stock such as the extended latch, ambi safety, ambi sling slot, ambi mag release, ambi bolt catch(not possible without a lmt mars or a kac lower) 2 stage trigger, iron sights. You will find it is on par if not more expensive than the Hk...

Some people like fettling and adding the stuff later. Some like the solution off the gate.

There are other things that might help it in gov use such as such as grenade launcher lug, or safety that can be engaged after dropping the hammer and a handguard that retains zero after disassembly and reassembly and its distinct advantage in suppressor usage especially in short barrel configurations. Keep in mind for joe blow canadian shooters these are useless advantages but if we are to argue the merits of the capabilities they are there.

I notice at 3799 it's still a better value than a knights...

Edit:
As for youtube gun dudes that were ex cool kids majority of them are usually sponsored by one of said companies... not that bcm or dd isn't awesome they absolutely are.

And this is one of the rare times we can have the cooler gear than the americans. Because out of the factory opyions their mr556/a1 are a non chrome lined 16 inch barrel gun... the end. They don't have a factory 11 inch or 14.5 option. We do.
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- Can't say I agree this with, as newer versions of DD come with ambi safety and most models have a great mil trigger if not a 2 stage or 3 gun trigger. As for the ambi sling slot, mag release, that's personal preference. I do like that DD has changed over to MLOK handguards over the older pici rails (12,3,6,9 oclock) on the H&K. Adding a sling mount isn't that much ($30-50?) Most models have a QD mount on the MLOK HG. Iron sights from $100-200?

As for holding zero after disassembly, I don't think that is something just an HK does. Most, (I wont say all since I didnt research all rifles) top tier AR15 hold zero after taking to upper off to clean.

The gov use comment, doesn't apply to us, civilians. I would say some of the guys on youtube I watch make it clear that they are not sponsored and they use them as a civilian due to using them in the military, but yes many channels are sponsored.
 
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HK have been an @ss since years,i love their firearms but like most are saying,they overprice their rifle and remember HK have sued every Video game maker that used HK in their game ... even GSG was under sued menace for the 522 etc

Karma is doing it's job ...
 
Is it very fair to say HK under investigation from German government regards G3 rifles, MG3s and MG4s sent to Saudi Arabia, now seen in hands of Yemeni rebels?
I am thinking these are combat losses most likely.
And in many cases this is war equipment given up very easily by not so motivated Saudi troops getting thier collective arses kicked by Houthi rebels.
 
rajczak_kashka said:
Very true, however, question was which AR’s were of similar quality to HK. My only true experience with something roughly on par with HK was KAC. I’ve owned LMT,Colt, DD and Armalite.... all fantastic rifles but IMHO the KAC rifles are on par. Again, question was also raised with regard as to why HK was so expensive. And, again, IMHO, if you want to compare apples to apples, HK and KAC rifles are also closely matched in price due to higher quality and materials among other attributes.
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What didn't you like from LMT Colt DD and AL? Just curious how many rounds you put through each rifle?
 
Euro said:
As a consumer why would one by an H&K MR223 @ $3799 (DurhamOutdoors) over a Daniel Defense @ $2100-2600. These are both guns used by "tier 1 delta seal ninja rangers" so if both are good for them, I can't imagine one is overly better. Most of the channels of ex mil guys I watch seem to be running DD or BCM AR15/M4, and they have a choice to buy whatever they want with their money. So from the civilian side in Canada why pay the extra $1100 plus? Please don't say the quality lol. All three companies DD HK BCM make amazing rifles.
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As a MR223 owner, im disappointed to see that the price is now 3799. I paid no where close to that for mine and yes mine is an A3.
I wish there was more supply and thus lower price and more ppl owning them so that perhaps we could have a big enough market up here to have locally available parts.

I’ll tell you even my MR308A3-28 costed way less than $3799.... i sold my MR308A3 i think maybe 1 year ago for only 2800 on EE.
 
Tiker said:
As a MR223 owner, im disappointed to see that the price is now 3799. I paid no where close to that for mine and yes mine is an A3.
I wish there was more supply and thus lower price and more ppl owning them so that perhaps we could have a big enough market up here to have locally available parts.

I’ll tell you even my MR308A3-28 costed way less than $3799.... i sold my MR308A3 i think maybe 1 year ago for only 2800 on EE.
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$2800 that's a good price lol.
 
Price always comes up on HK threads, but I do agree that 3799 is really pricey.
Everyone directs hate at HK but whats really going on? If HK is increasing the prices of their stuff, then ok, the price complaint is justified.
If HK is not increasing the prices, but the importer and local dealers are increasing the prices, then whats the point of blaming HK?
The first time I saw MR223s online in canada they were like 2799 at dealers. So is the $1000 increase caused by HK or the dealers?

See this picture for what i mean:
67156223_10156893752807499_2950036705740062720_n.jpg


so when a brand new HK key MR223 cost under 3K, a used one with quad rail must cost a lot less right? Which means its in the DD price point that you mentioned. Then you just pick what you like.
 
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Tiker said:
Price always comes up on HK threads, but I do agree that 3799 is really pricey.
Everyone directs hate at HK but whats really going on? If HK is increasing the prices of their stuff, then ok, the price complaint is justified.
If HK is not increasing the prices, but the importer and local dealers are increasing the prices, then whats the point of blaming HK?
The first time I saw MR223s online in canada they were like 2799 at dealers. So is the $1000 increase caused by HK or the dealers?

See this picture for what i mean:
67156223_10156893752807499_2950036705740062720_n.jpg


so when a brand new HK key MR223 cost under 3K, a used one with quad rail must cost a lot less right? Which means its in the DD price point that you mentioned. Then you just pick what you like.
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That’s a good price, I’m curious now if that is dealer or HK
 
Euro said:
That’s a good price, I’m curious now if that is dealer or HK
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It's dealers dude. We've always gotten hosed by our retailers. You wanna know why they are 3799 now? Because at 3299 they flew off the shelf. I'll admit i dont recall them being 2799 but i could believe they disappeared off the shelves pretty quick. They will keep raising the prices till people stop buying them to find that max profit sweet spot.

Why else is vp9/p30 mags 90 bucks here and 35 bucks in the states? Even with a conversion rate it's 45 bucks here. Throw in economy of scale(harder to do on a globally made product) and maybe 55 to 60 bucks. Then it magically costs another 30 bucks more?

As for your arguement of the value of the features, thats up to the end user to determine. If you want to run a dd stock... you're right the value proposition is low on the hks front. But i have seen plenty of dd owners ditch their mil spec trigger(i do agree ar mil spec triggers are quite good) for geissele 2 stage triggers. Im saying if you want to get a dd or a cc or bcm and add all the features the hk has stock... it's gonna come to a higher cost... or at least when they were 3299 it would have.

Recent price bump to 3799 is disturbing.
 
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merlin1 said:
Plus 1
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They dug their grave years ago- when they decided that us ''peons'' were not worth their time-after I had bought HK 300 and SL7 via Century-who were their Canadian importers at the time-excellent firearms -overpriced by a shade- but then they decided that ''civilian'' sales were not part of their business model-and the closure of their US importer in VA. followed-and the marketing to ''suckers'' started at ridiculous prices...???
 
m6tlogistics said:
They dug their grave years ago- when they decided that us ''peons'' were not worth their time-after I had bought HK 300 and SL7 via Century-who were their Canadian importers at the time-excellent firearms -overpriced by a shade- but then they decided that ''civilian'' sales were not part of their business model-and the closure of their US importer in VA. followed-and the marketing to ''suckers'' started at ridiculous prices...???
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Im curious,what is the statu of the SL7 ? non-restricted or else ?
 
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