AT15 7.5" PDW Carbines

[alberta tactical rifle]

These itty bitty sub-carbines are a bit of a specialist item. We don't build many of them but they are very cool.


The very first 5.56mm PDW carbine we ever put together. It has a 7.5" heavy profile match grade stainless steel barrel. The oversized round forend and SPEX brake make it resemble the ubiquitous MP5SD. Magpul furniture and a C-More sight complete the look.





The Operator: A more sophistocated PDW. This one wears a Noveski rail and QD vertical grip over top of the 7.5" heavy stainless barrel. The ACE Socom stock, Ergo Grip and one-off custom Cerakote give this sub-carbine a unique look. Belonging to one of our employees it bears one of the original SPEX R&D brakes.





Gen II Operator: 7.5" stainless heavy barrel, Troy rail, ACE Socom long stock, SPEX brake.




Gen IIa Operator: 7.5" stainless heavy barrel, JP Ent VTac free float forend with top rail, Socom short stock, SPEX brake. This rifle is available for purchase for $2970 ($2720 w/o sights)




Oct 2010 Update - got a new one for you guys.



We have a small number of 7.5" heavy stainless barrels for sale. $325 each

[Lazerus2000]

I've built two of these 7.5" shorties.
They look UberCool,
but they ARE LOUD, and the velocities with these short barrel is quite a bit less.[ about 100 fps less ]
AND, more significantly, the spread in velocities is also quite a bit larger.
In 5.56, with these short barrels, a lot of powder gets burned outside the barrel.

My first 7.5" was old technology, with a pig tail gas tube.
It had a F/A bolt carrier, and a rifle length butt with rifle buffer & spring.
It worked reliably.

The second one had a regular pistol length straight gas tube,
and also had a F/A bolt carrier, and a rifle length butt with rifle buffer & spring.
It was also reliable.
However,
given the noise, flame, and power drop involved in these ultra short 5.56 builds, for my next ultra short AR, I am seriously considering a 9mm AR build using one of the LW modifed lowers that take Glock magazines.
Or better yet, a .357 SIG build ...
but that would get ...
COMPLICATED, and quite expensive??

Right now I am playing with a FAB/KPOS carbine conversion kit on my G35, which already has 9mm and a .357 SIG adaptor barrels.
Simple and inexpensive.

If the ergonomics of this Glock ?Carbine? can come close to matching a shorty 9mm AR build, why then I may save myself some money.

And while those 7.5" ARs admittedly do look TactiCool!
my 10.5" LMT AR looks almost as cool, but is significanlty quieter.
[;{)
LAZ 1

[alberta tactical rifle]

We also tried a pigtail gas tube at first but ended up going with a straight pistol length gas tube and the rifle works 100%

With a conventional muzzle brake or flash hider, these things are indeed abusive. Hence the reason both are wearing SPEX brakes, which throw the sound and blast downrange, away from the shooter. The SPEX is very good at killing flash as well. This makes these little rifles a lot more fun to shoot.

Velocity and thus ballistics reduction is a MOOT point unless one is planning on shooting people with this thing, which this being Canada we assume nobody is.

We are working on something even smaller and more compact so watch this space.

[Lazerus2000]

Something Smaller and even more compact?

How about an uber-shorty piston driven AR with a side folder?

And just so that short barrel won't break our ear drums,
make it IN .300 WHISPER or 7.62X39 or 9mm or .357 SIG????

Yep, here in Canucklehead Land,
terminal ballistics on these range use only,
long range paper punches,
is pretty well a MOOT ISSUE.

But when you get that short a barrel,
maybe a fatter/heavier bullet is more appropriate than 5.56 [ so these fatter/heavier paper punches can push through Thicker paper ] .
ALSO,

In 5.56, with these short barrels, a lot of powder gets burned outside the barrel,
and the spread in velocities is also quite a bit larger.

Theoretically,
any increase in the spread of velocities may be associated with a decrease in accuracy.
That point is NOT moot!

Any more contributors to the discussion on the merits of
LOUD and slender,
VS less loud, more Heavy,
in AR uber-shorties???

I've never personally played around with a 9MM AR,
so I don't yet know any details, but when you get this short in an AR 15 type fire arm,
why not use a pistol cartridge??

Is the 7.5" AR in 5.56 a 300 yd fire arm?
Is a 9mm AR only a 200 yd fire arm?
Is the extra increase in range worth the much louder muzzle blast and all that powder wasted out side the barrel?

Enquiring minds would like to know,
thanks
LAZ 1

[alberta tactical rifle]

Piston drive in a pistol length carbine could be problematic. I don't know of anyone producing a piston drive that short that we can get hold of.

However a side folder is a separate issue. That requires a shortened bolt carrier and a redesigned recoil system. Both of which are achievable.

We are actually contemplating other calibers like 300 Whisper and 6.5 Grendel. We have reamers and the barrels have been ordered and should be here soon.

The problem with 7.62x39 is it doesn't feed through AR mags so well and apparently it is very hard on bolt life. The Whisper is a better solution.

[Paulinski]

I would say a 7.5" AR is the across the room carbean

[alberta tactical rifle]

I would say a 7.5" AR is the across the room carbean

They make GREAT under the pillow guns for the bedroom

[Lazerus2000]

please, Please, PLEASE get some .300 Whisper barrels in.
I would buy another .300 Whisper barrel in a second,
as long as it had a twist that was suitable for the HEAVIES.
However,
getting the .300 W brass up here in volume might still be a bit of a hassle.

I brought in two SS 16" barrels, [ which came with pistol length gas tubes ] in .300 Whisper/aka .300 Fireball/aka .221/.30/ aka .30 Sportsman. I put one barrel in to a complete upper, oredered up 1000 rds of once fired/reformed .223/.300 W brass, and a set of .300W dies.

Unfortunately, I had to sell off my .300 Whispers.

I still keep a few .300 Whisper cases loaded with a 230 Gr bullet,
just to remind me of what I missed out on, and to show people at gun shows.

In New Zealand, where snufflers are legal, the .300W with heavy bullets has reportedly been used successfully on their Elk - up to 200 yds.

Gotta like that .300W cartridge ...
perhaps what the AR 15 should have been created with instead of the .223??
Or maybe not?

[strykrpal]

Is pricing some big secret or is it one of those "if you have to ask" things?

[Suputin]

please, Please, PLEASE get some .300 Whisper barrels in.
I would buy another .300 Whisper barrel in a second,
as long as it had a twist that was suitable for the HEAVIES.

There is really no need to use super heavy bullets for subsonic operation. Even medium weight subsonics have huge penetration so any extra energy is just wasted when the bullet passes through the target. However I believe 1:8 is kind of a standard twist rate for 300 Whisper.

However, getting the .300 W brass up here in volume might still be a bit of a hassle.

Remington is making new 221 Fireball brass and Wholesale Sports is stocking it. Otherwise 300 Whisper isn't too difficult to make from cut down 223 Rem brass.

I still keep a few .300 Whisper cases loaded with a 230 Gr bullet, just to remind me of what I missed out on, and to show people at gun shows.

I once got to shoot a suppressed 510 Whisper with API bullets. Tons of fun but a wee bit too expensive and difficult to live with for my liking. I am a big fan of the 300 Whisper though.

Gotta like that .300W cartridge ...
perhaps what the AR 15 should have been created with instead of the .223??
Or maybe not?

FWIW the 300 Whisper was specifically designed to go through the AR platform with minimal fuss.