A bad experience at Epps

If I was relatively local (i.e. within a day trip), I would threaten to (and follow through with) small claims court. If the situation is as you say it is: obviously not abused, unfired, not manufactured within spec, etc. they don't have a leg to stand on.

I ordered a Marlin XT-22 back in March. By September, they had received two shipments of XT rifles from Marlin, but not my gun. To be fair, I was warned it would take months, and I was OK with that. But six months of waiting, with no gun and no timeline of when it would arrive, seemed to be a bit much. I finally called them to see what was up. At some point I asked to speak to the manager, and was connected with someone who I think might have been the owner's wife (Don't quote me on that though). When I explained that I thought it seemed a little much to wait six months for a .22 rifle, she told me, "Well you obviously don't know much about the firearms business in Canada." Later she commented how lots of people call to complain. I came away from that conversation with the notion they consider me to be an ignorant complainer. Ultimately I cancelled and they refunded me the full amount.

I have no complaints with them except for what seems to me an attitude of "We don't really need you." Fair enough; that is how commerce works. I went to a semi-local dealer and found the gun I was after. It's a great gun, and I only wish I had not waited the six months, but instead shopped around until I found what I was after.

As an aside, they just recieved another shipment of XT series rifles, but no sign of the one I ordered. Ironically I would still buy the thing (I really like the one I have now) if they would just get it in stock.

Claven2 said:

Let me start by saying yes, I did contact epps first!!!

Unfortunately, I have to register my dissatisfaction with the service I rec'd. I have done business there a few times before and was very satisfied.

This time, I ordered a new Chiappa model 92 take-down 20" rifle in .45 Colt. The rifle is attractive and otherwise nice, but the front sight dovetail was improperly machined and cut too deep resulting in a front sight blade that won't stay put. A factory defect Epps would not have noticed before they shipped the rifle.

I got the rifle yesterday afternoon and called today to request a refund or exchange against a Winchester 1892 since they had no chiqppas left in stock and I explained I needed something for this season.

Caveat emptor.

Epps claimed it was store policy not to exchange or refund any firearm that was defective and that it has to go back to the importer for repair, something they conceded would take months. This is very poor customer service. The gun is unused/unfired and in its original packaging.

To summarize:
- defective product.
- return not being offered.
- exchange not being offered.
- my request to talk to a supervisor denied.
- their response when I suggested their actions were not jaw consumer protection laws: "that's policy - sorry".
- I told them I was considering contacting MasterCard to dispute the charge after it became evident they weren't going to be reasonable. Their response: "you are welcome to try".

Hopefully my experience is isolated, but caveat emptor. I now am out over $1000 and am stuck with a gun with unusable sights and a (possibly) barrel that needs replacing which I can send for warranty, maybe to italy, but will not have a new rifle for this hinting season.

Click to expand...

Did you try calling back and getting someone else? Seems odd that they would deny you a conversation with the supervisor.

So far from what I hear. They difinitelty should do more to remedy or at the very least make much more of an effort to to accommodate this problem. Just from a simple business perspective; you could or could not be a return costumer now.

I had a particular rifle in mind from Epps, but I too will pass now. Also a while back I ordered an enfield barrel from them and got it OK and the barrel was fine except they didn't tell me it was "welded" into a receiver that was hacked off and I had to take it to a gun smith to have what was left of the receiver removed, not happy about that.

Its quite clearly stated that all new firearms must be sent to manufacturers if they are defective.
I bought a 336XLR that had problems and I just shipped it right back out.
It sucks, but its quite clearly stated that that is their policy.

I like how 'policy' trumps good service and common sense. Just like another dealer (of black guns) I know.

Call back... lol. I called over and over for 2 hours before I got past the "sorry, all five lines are busy" message. I wan't about to call for another 2 hours straight. They don't offer a "hold" function if more than 5 ppl are waiting. Right before hunting season so they must be very busy and consider my business to not much matter in the scheme of things. It's not often I feel this neglected as a customer. This is in start contrast to when I called to buy - they were the epitome of polite and mindful of my thoughts, opinions, etc. before I handed over the mastercard.

So here are the pics of the issues. Don't judge Epps' reaction by the relative severity or minority of these issues because they didn't even want to know what was wrong with the gun and I never managed to fully explain it before they cut me off. It was good enough for them to know it had defects before they cut me off mid-explanation to lay down the "warranty service law" - lol.

So this is the primary issue. Look at all the space under the sight and that it is sitting crooked in the dovetail. Wit the tension screw bottomed out, it barely grabs and with firm finger pressure, I can still move it side to side. Obviously, it's not sitting flat.



Here you see the screw relaxed (the sight then just falls out of the dovetail) and you can see that either the end mill cut too deep, or the dovetail cutter was set too shallow at the muzzle end. It could be filed back into shape, but then the factory sight would be too loose and I would void the warranty (for what that's worth).



Here is the stock crack. It's jus a hairline that I was going to live with and glue it before I found the more serious sight problem.



And here we see a cosmetic machining error inside the receiver. It doesn't affect function so I didn't mention it to Epps, but it's not very pretty either.



This smudge on the tip of the takedown lever is actually rust. I rubbed the orange stuff off with a cloth, if I were to keep the rifle I would have to steel wool it.



And finally, note how EVERY action screw is slightly buggered? Usually Chiappa is better than this based on other Chiappa guns I have owned in the past.



I think I'll bring the rifle to see my gunsmith tomorrow to see if he thinks the DT can be fixed. If not, it's going back to Epps. and we'll see if I get a better answer this time.

Very poor customer service indeed all they had to do was a good inspection of it before they shipped it out would have taken all of an extra five minutes to insure customer satisfaction. Really it may be policy but come on who wants to buy something just to receive it and ship it right back out for warranty work.

ajdale said:

Its quite clearly stated that all new firearms must be sent to manufacturers if they are defective.
I bought a 336XLR that had problems and I just shipped it right back out.
It sucks, but its quite clearly stated that that is their policy.

Click to expand...

Where? They didn't state it to me over the phone when I ordered it??? It's not on their invoice either, nor the product documentation? How is a mail or phone order customer supposed to know of this? And don't suggest their un-navigable website with no search function.

Ya my first experience there wasn't the best but the second time i purchased from there i was extremely satisfied. I would shop there again. I thought they seemed like pretty good people.

Wow,

Me and my friends wont be spending a dime in orillia

The only true way to judge the business practices of a firearms retailer is how they act when things go sour.

Epps is now a big no-no on my list.

I would bring that rifle to epps. It is NOT a defective rifle, it is a 2nd ("Seconds) rifle, meaning it is a rifle with clearly known blemishes offered for sale at a discount. This is a common practice with wholesaler to retailer business. But the retailer has to know, and must let the customer know. Usually products like that are brought in once a year or something. I offered this type of thing in my music store, a guitar with a few blemished for a touring artist who is going to bang it up anyway offered at about a 30% discount was good IF you know what you are getting. You did NOT accept to buy a "Seconds" rifle, so you should be getting the rifle you ordered.

I like epps, a lot in fact, so I think this is clearly an error of not being able to "see and discuss" in person the issue.

Thanks for sharing your experiance. I'll be sure to shop with caution.

Here..............and it clearly states the MANUFACTURER is responsible....

Please Note: There is a 30 day warranty on firearms in Good to Mint condition. Firearms in New condition are covered by their manufacturer's warranty, only. There is no warranty on firearms in Fair, Poor or As-Is condition

So send it back to the Manufacturer and explain all the issues and lets see if the manufacturer stands behind the product. I am sure they will but as stated it will take some time.

IMO you buying it just before the season is your problem not Epps problem. If you had bought this in May and got it back already this would be a non event

Claven2 said:

A business should not be judged by the times they rapidly (and by pure luck) sell non-defective merchandise, they should be judged on how they deal with the instances where they have to deal with problems that are not the customer's fault.

Click to expand...

Well said.

Bigbubba said:

IMO you buying it just before the season is your problem not Epps problem. If you had bought this in May and got it back already this would be a non event

Click to expand...

You're kidding, right? So according to you there's no point in stocking or selling hunting rifles after May... They should've given him a store credit to keep his business (they can always re-sell the rifle when they get it back from the factory). It wasn't like it was a special order item or they were completely out of other rifles they could substitute. He may have even purchased the same rifle as well.

Epps earns my official:

Thanks for sharing your story with us. My first time trying to deal with them was my last. I am tired of hearing about those BS policies that the firearms industry is trying to hold on to. Nowhere would these policies be aceptable except in the gun world. If the store sells a faulty gun they should without question take it back or exchange it with one that works end of story.

I always hear the excuse Its not our fault be did not build it That is just crap, you sold it so it is your fault. What would the gun dealer say if there brand new Toyota quit running and when the dealer was contacted and told about it said its not our fault we will send it back to Japan and they will fix it.

Only in Canada in the gun industry can people get away with this kind of service. I fix cars for a living and one day one of the local gun shop employees Alternator failed that I had just installed less then 2 weeks before. When he asked how long before I could get him a new alternator installed jokingly I said well I have take it off and send it back to wilson and have them repair it and that could take a month or two. He got a little wide eyed and asked me if I was serious and I told him no but that is how my new Beratta was handled that I bought from him that would not work out of the box.

Thanks again for the story it just confirms that my feelings towards Eppes was right all along. Makes my next choice of where to buy my guns from a lot easier.

Graydog

This isn't a warranty issue. This is a retail sales act issue. Their policy, even if stated, doesn't trump contract law. In this case, the OP contracted for goods. He paid his money and did not receive the goods he paid for. Under contract law, he must have an opportunity to view the goods, a representative sample of the goods or be afforded the opportunity to inspect the goods to make sure they are to specification. This rifle is clearly not to specification and the transaction isn't completed until he accepts the rifle, which he clearly does not.

Bigbubba said:

Here..............and it clearly states the MANUFACTURER is responsible....

Please Note: There is a 30 day warranty on firearms in Good to Mint condition. Firearms in New condition are covered by their manufacturer's warranty, only. There is no warranty on firearms in Fair, Poor or As-Is condition

So send it back to the Manufacturer and explain all the issues and lets see if the manufacturer stands behind the product. I am sure they will but as stated it will take some time.

IMO you buying it just before the season is your problem not Epps problem. If you had bought this in May and got it back already this would be a non event

Click to expand...

For the record, I have nothing to do with Ellwood Epps or Chiappa.

While it would have been nice if Epps had offered to refund your money, they did not manufacture the firearm and should not be expected to warrant it.
The manufacturer offers the warranty not the dealer. Pretty much all "box" stores regardless of what they sell, will tell you the same thing;
"The warranty is with the manufacturer". If they offer to replace or refund that is usually a deal they cut with the manufacturer.

Have you even tried contacting the manufacturer? If so what did they tell you?

I had a crappy experience with one of there sales staff.(I did receive an apology from another staff member. Wish I could remember his name, dark hair glasses. Very Professional and actually knew what he was talking about he was the only reason I returned there later and bought several guns. Now hearing this, there are lots more places I can take my money and buy guns.