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- Thread starter Holleyman
- Start date
I have tested reloads for accuracy in carbines vs pistols and found that they are the same as pistols. That is, each has its own best load.
I was testing them at 50 yards in 9mm, 40 and 45. The load that each like was the same as a load favoured by one of my pistols in the same caliber.
I tried several powders and did not find that one was uniformly better than another. But I was looking for accuracy, not speed.
I was testing them at 50 yards in 9mm, 40 and 45. The load that each like was the same as a load favoured by one of my pistols in the same caliber.
I tried several powders and did not find that one was uniformly better than another. But I was looking for accuracy, not speed.
I personally am of the opinion that elevating a cartridge to work better in a carbine is only OK if you do not have a pistol common to that caliber. Such as I've a 32-20 that is a firecracker coming out of a Huskie rifle, but if you put it into a pistol you would be playing on thin ice ( and in the USA most likely as some Brain Trust ruled them as prohibited in Canada).
Unexpected ( and unpleasant ) surprises after pulling a trigger are bad...
Unexpected ( and unpleasant ) surprises after pulling a trigger are bad...
I had a load done up for my 9mm Walther P99 with 124 Berry's round nose bullets and 4.5gr Bullseye. Worked great out of the pistol at 1060 fps. When I put the same load through the JR carbine, they fly at 1350 fps and primers were quite flat. Accuracy was between 3 and 4 inches at 100 yards. Had to back the load down to 4.2gr. No change in accuracy after that. So something to keep in mind.
I have seen some loads in manuals not recommended for carbines. The normal reason is they are very low velocity rounds and could get stuck in a longer barrel as there isn't enough gas volume to keep them going. I haven't looked much into 9mm but do find recommendations like this for 32ACP. I load it for chamber adapters in 30 cal rifles so it makes sense there.
Hi,
The Speer Reloading Manual #14 (p755) very clearly warns about 9mmP (9mm Luger) loads for carbines: " The 9mm Luger cartridge needs special consideration when loading for a carbine". Some comments made here on the reloading forum also said their cautionary note about using magnum primers with 2400 is stupid, so it seems some reloaders may also disregard this warning.
As LUTNIT above points out, the volume of gas produced is what determines what is safe/practical or not.
The small volume of gas produced by very fast powders and small volumes of these powder, especially with the heavier 124/125gr and especially 147gr bullets, is the main cause of getting bullets stuck in long carbine barrels. Using larger volumes of slower powders is a safer option. Slower powders such as Blue Dot, Power Pistol and AA7 gives the highest possible velocity (even from a 4" barrel pistol) and may also be the safest option for a carbine. Therefore if you want to save 3-4 grains of powder per round, and do not care about blowing up your carbine by firing a round when you already have a bullet stuck in the barrel, follow the popular practice of using light charges of powders such as 231. It is a great powder, but not ideal for use in a carbine, unless you know something which the researchers at Speer does not know.
Just remember that a maximum powder charge for any cartridge is the same, irrespective of what platform it is fired from. Do not exceed maximum loads as published (in a reputable reloading manual), and always work up to a safe maximum for your particular firearm.
The Speer Reloading Manual #14 (p755) very clearly warns about 9mmP (9mm Luger) loads for carbines: " The 9mm Luger cartridge needs special consideration when loading for a carbine". Some comments made here on the reloading forum also said their cautionary note about using magnum primers with 2400 is stupid, so it seems some reloaders may also disregard this warning.
As LUTNIT above points out, the volume of gas produced is what determines what is safe/practical or not.
The small volume of gas produced by very fast powders and small volumes of these powder, especially with the heavier 124/125gr and especially 147gr bullets, is the main cause of getting bullets stuck in long carbine barrels. Using larger volumes of slower powders is a safer option. Slower powders such as Blue Dot, Power Pistol and AA7 gives the highest possible velocity (even from a 4" barrel pistol) and may also be the safest option for a carbine. Therefore if you want to save 3-4 grains of powder per round, and do not care about blowing up your carbine by firing a round when you already have a bullet stuck in the barrel, follow the popular practice of using light charges of powders such as 231. It is a great powder, but not ideal for use in a carbine, unless you know something which the researchers at Speer does not know.
Just remember that a maximum powder charge for any cartridge is the same, irrespective of what platform it is fired from. Do not exceed maximum loads as published (in a reputable reloading manual), and always work up to a safe maximum for your particular firearm.
The likely reason is that the plating on Berry's bullets is pretty thin. You are wearing through it at that velocity. I bet you started to get leading.
Where separate carbine loads are listed, they max out at the same point but usually start a couple tenths higher, especially for jacketed bullets. You don't want to have to pound a bullet out.
And using magnum primers with 2400 is not necessary, but I guess it's not stupid if that's what you have and you aren't picky.
My 12 inch barrel AR eats up all my loads I built for my pistol, mostly 124gr.
I ran into trouble one afternoon trying to work up a subsonic 147gr load using 800x and stuck a bullet. Pounded it out and learned my lower powder charge limit. Haven't done any subsonic testing since then but will get back to it one of these days.
Just load a mid range book load and you should be fine.
I ran into trouble one afternoon trying to work up a subsonic 147gr load using 800x and stuck a bullet. Pounded it out and learned my lower powder charge limit. Haven't done any subsonic testing since then but will get back to it one of these days.
Just load a mid range book load and you should be fine.
This interests me greatly. I picked up a Keltec Sub2000 in 9mm and am hoping to use the same loads as in my M&P9. I will be using 124gr Campro FMJRN, which have a plating so thick it might as well be a jacket. I can't believe I forgot what powder I've got, think it's Titegroup.
bigi, what recipe are you using? Any advice or experiences you'd care to share?
bigi, what recipe are you using? Any advice or experiences you'd care to share?
I've got a Sub-2000. Always use the same ammo as what my wife shoots in her Kimber. 5gr of VV N350 behind 125gr Campro HP. 5.2gr behind 115gr Campro RN. No signs of over pressure with either in the carbine. VV N350 is a bit slower burning though. Federal primers seem to flatten out a bit more than remington do.
I shoot the same loads in both pistols and my 9 mm Beretta CX-4 and Kel Tec Sub 2000. I would be surprised if any load that can cycle the action would not clear the barrel in a carbine.
I shoot either 4.1 gr's Win 231 under an Ideal 121 gr Cast or same bullet with 4.5 gr's Unique. My Kel Tec does prefer jacketed to cast, so my other load is a 124 Horn RN over 4.7 gr's Unique.
With most 9 mm carbines being blow back, you are only going to gain a certain fps over a pistol. Shooting extra hot 9 mm's out of your carbine will not gain you as much extra fps as you might think.
I shoot either 4.1 gr's Win 231 under an Ideal 121 gr Cast or same bullet with 4.5 gr's Unique. My Kel Tec does prefer jacketed to cast, so my other load is a 124 Horn RN over 4.7 gr's Unique.
With most 9 mm carbines being blow back, you are only going to gain a certain fps over a pistol. Shooting extra hot 9 mm's out of your carbine will not gain you as much extra fps as you might think.
