07 norc m305 really bad sights or some thing else

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Davie Sprocket

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My norc is shooting way left, the rear set all the way over I am shooting more then 6"'s left. Center on even more. Even at that it is not consistent enough to even start working on sighting it in, this using a bipod.

I have tried to read through the stickies or other posts on this and haven't found any that help. I have tried playing with the rear site and trying to adjust the front site, no luck front sights seems to be welded or something, removed the set screw and haven't been able to move it.

I am completely at a loss, is there any thing this could be, the rifle was bought off the EE and has had some work done to it by a previous owner. It was bedded and looks like some one played with it, marks on parts of the rifle. Any ideas?

Thanks.
 
Can you post pics of the marks on the rifle?

Typical Norc quality, but for the price; who gives a poop? We are here to help you.

That front sight, after you have removed the set screw, place it on the end of a 2x4 block of wood (no scarring of the barrel surface) and using a wooden dowel as a drift punch, tap away at the base of the sight meets the dovetail on the flash suppressor. The Norc factory sight and it's dovetail are quite tightly machined and installed I have found.

Remember that you must move the front sight IN THE OPPOSITE direction you want your bullet point of impact to move!

Get back to us and keep us posted so that we can continue to support you!

Cheers,
Barney
 
Hungry taken some odds here. Witch 1 do you think it will be?
  1. Rear peep sight is buggered.
  2. Rear sight is not properly machined.
  3. Mis-algined barrel.
  4. Uncle Chao QC department out to lunch yet again.
  5. Somebody thought that they were an M14 mechanic and buggered it up royaly!
  6. All of the above and then some!
 
Davie Sprocket said:
My norc is shooting way left, the rear set all the way over I am shooting more then 6"'s left. Center on even more. Even at that it is not consistent enough to even start working on sighting it in, this using a bipod.

I have tried to read through the stickies or other posts on this and haven't found any that help. I have tried playing with the rear site and trying to adjust the front site, no luck front sights seems to be welded or something, removed the set screw and haven't been able to move it.


Thanks.
Click to expand...
Same problem with mine,


I will be watching this one...
 
Davie Sprocket said:
My norc is shooting way left, the rear set all the way over I am shooting more then 6"'s left. Center on even more. Even at that it is not consistent enough to even start working on sighting it in, this using a bipod.

I have tried to read through the stickies or other posts on this and haven't found any that help. I have tried playing with the rear site and trying to adjust the front site, no luck front sights seems to be welded or something, removed the set screw and haven't been able to move it.

I am completely at a loss, is there any thing this could be, the rifle was bought off the EE and has had some work done to it by a previous owner. It was bedded and looks like some one played with it, marks on parts of the rifle. Any ideas?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'm not taking you for a fool.
I just went through a huge learning process with my Norinco M14 sights.
I had similar issues.
You would have to post pictures to see if the previous owner really did bubba the thing to the point of broken.
I was told to set the windage on the rear sight ( the left to right knob ) at zero or right in the middle.
Then adjust the front post sight ONLY until your 100m groupings are centered on the vertical axis. Then you have a true windage zero.
If you want to move your group left, then the front site has to move right and vice versa.
I also learned that yes the front sight is a ##### to move! But it does move. Hungry's method is a great way to do it.
Then see if you're one of the lucky Norinco owners who has a front sight blade that is way to high lol :D
How many clicks up from absolute bottom on the elevation/distance knob are you to get about centered on your target at 100m?
 
Davie Sprocket said:
My norc is shooting way left, the rear set all the way over I am shooting more then 6"'s left. Center on even more.
Click to expand...

Can you take a pic or two showing the alignment of the sights as best as you can?

Couple of questions, for clarity. You mention that the rifle is shooting 6" to the left and the the rear sight is "all the way over". Which direction is "all the way over" (left of right)?

Is the front sight perpendicular to the horizontal plane of the barrel and rifle, and is it center?

At what range are you observing your shots at 6" to the left?

I ask these basic questions because something is really out to lunch in your descriptions. If the rear sight is all the way to the left, then your point of impact would be too far to the left, which you sorta described. If it is over all the way to the right, then the front blade cannot be sitting perpendicular and the sight may be out of index, but to be out that much, it should be plainly obvious (the front sight would be and an obvious angle).

On mine, there is a set screw (allen) which in theory should be able to be loosened and the front sight moved more to the left. If it looks like it is already center of the barrel bore and perpendicular, then there may not be an issue with the sight at all.

Which brings me to the range. 6" at 25 yards is way different than 100 yards. When first shooting his 30-06 (formerly mine), my son had the scope set way over from where I had set it and had it shooting accurate for years. The reason, he had a seriously consistent flinch. not saying this is the cause here, but if everything else checks out...could be a possible reason.

Pics would definitely help to sort things out.
 
Here ya go, read post #9 and the sticky on the first page.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=647908

If its the sights that will fix it. If the rifle has been bubbad, we need pics.
 
Ok, thanks for the comments.

I had a really good look at the rifle tonight, completely disassembled it, I tried taking pictures of what I am seeing but the pictures don't really show it. When I set the barrelled receiver on a level surface the entire front sight and flash hider is leaning to the right, looking down from the receiver end. Now is this a problem with the barrel not being indexed with the receiver? Can I move the sight over enough to work with this or am I going to have to try and adjust that.

The gas cylinder is very loose and the nut can not be tightened it bottoms out at the 9 oclock mark, not even tight around 6 oclock. The flash hider was removed by a prior owner. As well someone used gb weld on the interior metal parts of the stock, looks like to secure them, or is this just epoxy from factory? The spring rod is a full size one and not the stamped one from regular norcs.

Rear sight is now completely f#cked, I tried putting it back together and over tightened the little nut on the right side, so I will need a new one. The sight is centered but theres no real adjusting it now.

There is a scope mount block just forward of the rear sight that is thread locked or something and its not coming off - don't think this is an issue with the iron sights.

The rifle cycles fine and shoots, but you can't hit the side of a barn with it. I'm starting to think this is why it was for sale in the first place. :(
 
It just needs the right tweaking by the right person.

What complicates things between the high school shop kids who put these together at the factory(ies) and the new-to-the-M14-crowd is the goofy quality contor/machining/assembly/heat treating that goes on.

Often the machining (can you say; parts machined on a Monday?) is goofy or off angle or slanted. Sometimes the torquing on of the barrel might be too tight (easily fixed by me).

Now about that gas cylinder.... I've owned more USGI M14's than I have fingers and ALL of them had loose gas cylinders. NONE of them were ever tight and that's one of the reasons I have so much experience accurizing these babies.

You mentioned a 9 o'clock gas lock... no worries. ONE shim takes care of that at my clinics. Or maybe a local Alberta M14 lover can help you out since I am in fact 2 time zones away (until I retire from teaching and move out west and leave Ontario once and for all). :D

I can mail you a shim for free! :)

Rear sights ? Not a problem since you have 3 options:

1) scope the rifle; more expensive but never have to use your irons
2) buy a set of my 2009 Norc rear sights I have for sale in the EE For $ 35 mailed
3) buy a set of my M14 USGI Winchester made rear sights for $ 125

The Norc M14 is a great buy for $ 400 ish give or take, you just gotta be a tinkering kinda guy! Lots of help here!

Just between you and me, I'm an iron sight kinda guy since I'm wickedly accurate (and confident) with the bombproof iron sights (not the early Norc krappy irons) that have been tweaked. They will outlast any Zombie invasion! :)

Any more questions? Indexing? Since I am an iron sight shooter, one glance through your rear aperture and I can tell you if it's indexed properly or not. It's a 5 minute :eek: fix. Those of you who have been to my clinics where we had a vise (I've done 33 clinics and I cannot remember .... ) will recall how fast and simple an indexing job is! :evil:

Your thoughts?

Cheers,
Barney
 
I bought the rifle used on the EE, so basically its get what you buy. I had it for a good 5 or 6 months before I could get out to the range to shoot it, the first time I thought it was just the rear sight, but the last time I took it out with the aim of dialing it in, this is when I found out that there was some thing more wrong. The rifle came with one of the cheaper aluminum scope mounts, I can try to make that work, but it looks rather flimsy thats why I never used it. Which again in hind sight looks like someone was trying to cure the same problem.

When I get a chance I will go through the videos of the clinics again. I do have access to large vises and wrenches through work. Other then that I would be willing to attend a clinic in Alberta.

Thanks for the help guys, I will post any updates if I can fix it, I will start another post if I FUBAR it.
 
Hungry said:
What complicates things between the high school shop kids who put these together at the factory(ies) and the new-to-the-M14-crowd is the goofy quality contor/machining/assembly/heat treating that goes on.

Often the machining (can you say; parts machined on a Monday?) is goofy or off angle or slanted. Sometimes the torquing on of the barrel might be too tight (easily fixed by me).
Click to expand...

images
 
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