The gun was not purchased to be used as a target rifle,it was purchased to be used as a varmint rifle,as well as some plinking at the range.I won't ever shoot more than 500 yards with it,so I could care less what the load does at long range.And I am not loading the 50gr v-max so mild as to be only producing 3100fps at the muzzle.It actually shoots better as it nears 3400fps.As to bullet design,the v-max did quite well on coyotes and smaller game in my 22-250,so I am assuming that it will also do well in the .223.I have no idea if the 80gr SMK will even expand reliably on coyotes at 400 yards.
1 in 8" twist 223,bullets
- Thread starter stubblejumper
- Start date
The gun was not purchased to be used as a target rifle,it was purchased to be used as a varmint rifle,as well as some plinking at the range.I won't ever shoot more than 500 yards with it,so I could care less what the load does at long range.And I am not loading the 50gr v-max so mild as to be only producing 3100fps at the muzzle.It actually shoots better as it nears 3400fps.As to bullet design,the v-max did quite well on coyotes and smaller game in my 22-250,so I am assuming that it will also do well in the .223.I have no idea if the 80gr SMK will even expand reliably on coyotes at 400 yards.
canucklehead
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Calgary, AB
The VMAX will expand EXPLOSIVELY on anything thicker than a blade of grass when anywhere close to 3000fps. I wouldn't use it if you want to keep the pelt - but if you're using it for varmint/predator control, it works great.
I'm gonna make some friends with this post - sorry guys, but this is the brutal truth.
Well you sir are a "typical hunter" and you need to stop getting sucked in by the marketing propaganda found in hunting and gun magazines. Those guns & ammo reviews in magazines are nothing more than advertizements. They are not honest. The guys selling that junk don't care if it works, they just want to sell it. guyrls like you believe it and preach it to those around you and create more guyrls like you.
Good target shooters pick the hardware for one reason - because it works. It's accurate and minimizes the effects of wind deflection, and at 500 yards your 50 grain bullet at whatever speed you claim to be running them do not stand a chance against an 80 grain berger vld at 2950. If it did, I and every other target shooter would be getting beat by them on a regular basis. For that matter I dont know of anyone who has EVER been beaten by a guy using 50 grain bullets, even as close as 300 yards.
And you wanna talk about terminal performance. Buddy I dont care how hard it hits the ground 3 feet to the down wind side of whatever it is you are shooting at!
Aggressive Target shooters are plaqued with a problem of bullets flying apart on the way to the target because of the inability of the bullet to withstand the rotational forces imparted upon the bullet at the rpms they are spinning. The goal is to run the bullet at a velocity just under the ragged edge of bullet self destruction. When a bullet spinning at that rate hits something it blows up with enthusiam and a ground hog hit by a 80 grain .224 vld will have it's guts blown into a 10 foot radius. Been there, and done it many times.
That being said, Pigs are gonna fly the day your highly frangible 50 grain bullet hits 3400 fps out of a 8 inch twist and does not fly apart half way to the target most of the time. An 8 inch twist is simply too fast for light bullets at high velocity.
The only practical reason a guy with a 223 rem should not be using 80 grain VLDs is to fit the magazine - and then we are into 69 grainers.
Anything less and you might just as well use a 22 rimfire.
Again, my apologies guys but it's the brutal truth.
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Apparently you either didn't read my previous post,or you could not comprehend it so I will state once again:
I DIDN'T BUY THE GUN TO COMPETE AT TARGET SHOOTING,I BOUGHT IT TO SHOOT VARMINTS,AND TO PLINK AT THE RANGE.I COULD CARE LESS IF THE 80GR BULLETS SHOOT SMALLER GROUPS AT LONG RANGE,IF THEY DON'T FIT THE MAGAZINE.
The most accurate load that fits the magazine in my rifle,is the 50gr v-max.I have tried the 55gr ballistic tip,the 60gr v-max,the 68gr Hornady match,and the 69gr SMK,and all need to be seated out longer than will fit the magazine to provide comparable accuracy to the 50gr v-max.
Just what propaganda have I fallen for?
I tried bullets from 50 to 69gr,and I chose the bullet that shoots best when seated to fit the magazine.I will use what works best for my uses in my rifle,and I could care less what propaganda some blowhard f-class target shooter that has never fired my rifle preaches.
stubblejumper go easy !! Fclassguy knows what he is talking about, you can seat the 80gr Berger VLD"S to work in your gun, just a little lighter load around 24gr Varget and F classguy is right it will work way better hunting than the small bullets and just blow away the small bullets on target at longer distances like 300y.
friend at range has same gun as yours his likes 70gr Beregrs with RL 15 he shoots under the inch at 300y on good days, but two other fellows shoot 80gr VLD shoot 5 under .600"
And the 90gr Berger match shoot like you won't believe but you need a 7.7 min to get them to stablize, you 8 twist might work.
manitou
friend at range has same gun as yours his likes 70gr Beregrs with RL 15 he shoots under the inch at 300y on good days, but two other fellows shoot 80gr VLD shoot 5 under .600"
And the 90gr Berger match shoot like you won't believe but you need a 7.7 min to get them to stablize, you 8 twist might work.
manitou
Not when he posted
I have chronographed the 50gr v-max at 3400fps out of my rifle,and since it puts five rounds into less than 1/2 inch at 100 yards consistently,I highly doubt that the bullets are flying apart halfway to the target.I have however settled on a load that produces 3350fps,because the primer pockets begin to loosen after a few firings at 3400fps.They seem to hold up well at 3350fps.
I for one, believe what I see happen with my own eyes,before I believe what someone tells me should happen.
I personally believe that Sako made a mistake when they built this gun on the XS action,instead of on the short action,that would have allowed for a magazine long enough to hold loads for the heavier bullets,at the overall lengths that they shoot best at in my rifle.
I did try the 68 and 69gr bullets,and the 69gr SMK did shoot well in the gun,but to get them to shoot well,I had to load them to lengths that didn't fit the magazine.I bought a repeater,because I wanted a repeater,so I am choosing not to use loads that won't fit the magazine.
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Thank you for your support
sorry stubblejumper - I guess that's why I'm not in politics.
When I bought my most recent Sako, they did not offer an 8 inch twist, so I had to order an unbarreled action and send it out for a custom 8" barrel and stock. It was the only way I could get it at the time.
Sako makes one of the best rifles you can buy. They are a progressive company and were one of the first companies to adopt the 8 inch twist rate for .223 in a production rifle. They chose to stray from a traditional 12-14 inch twist because of the success of heavy bullets used in match competition. People need to embrace that.
If you had one of the older versions with the slow twist rate I would be very supportive of 50 to 55 grain bullets and would offer you the loads I once used for my old Sako vaminter back in the 80s.
In this case it's like you are trying to run your Indy 500 race care on regular gasoline. It's a race car you have - race it!
Jam those lands with 80 Gr Sierra SMKs or Bergers with 25.5 grains of Varget and have a blast. I would bet you could hold .375" at 100 yards and a very good chance of minute of angle out to 1000 yards in calm weather.
If you want a magazine length repeater load, use 69 grain SMKs and 26 grains of Win 748 and call it a day.
If you want to get creative you could try the Sierra 77 grainers at magazine length. They were designed to fit your magazine.
Go shoot some ground hogs or deer with these loads and you can prove to yourself how good they are for hunting and shooting in general. I'm sure you will be pleased.
Dont focus too much on 100 yard accuracy. At a distance the balistic advantage of the heavy bullets will offset a slight close range accuracy advantage you may hapen to find in a light/low BC bullet.
Good luck.
When I bought my most recent Sako, they did not offer an 8 inch twist, so I had to order an unbarreled action and send it out for a custom 8" barrel and stock. It was the only way I could get it at the time.
Sako makes one of the best rifles you can buy. They are a progressive company and were one of the first companies to adopt the 8 inch twist rate for .223 in a production rifle. They chose to stray from a traditional 12-14 inch twist because of the success of heavy bullets used in match competition. People need to embrace that.
If you had one of the older versions with the slow twist rate I would be very supportive of 50 to 55 grain bullets and would offer you the loads I once used for my old Sako vaminter back in the 80s.
In this case it's like you are trying to run your Indy 500 race care on regular gasoline. It's a race car you have - race it!
Jam those lands with 80 Gr Sierra SMKs or Bergers with 25.5 grains of Varget and have a blast. I would bet you could hold .375" at 100 yards and a very good chance of minute of angle out to 1000 yards in calm weather.
If you want a magazine length repeater load, use 69 grain SMKs and 26 grains of Win 748 and call it a day.
If you want to get creative you could try the Sierra 77 grainers at magazine length. They were designed to fit your magazine.
Go shoot some ground hogs or deer with these loads and you can prove to yourself how good they are for hunting and shooting in general. I'm sure you will be pleased.
Dont focus too much on 100 yard accuracy. At a distance the balistic advantage of the heavy bullets will offset a slight close range accuracy advantage you may hapen to find in a light/low BC bullet.
Good luck.
For what it's worth I have a Sako 75 varmint with a 1:8 twist and pretty much shot 40gr bullets exclusively. I generally ran them at around 3700fps and have never experienced a bullet blowing up. This was with Nosler, Sierra BK's and Vmax. YMMV
Actually Sako still offers both a 1 in 8" twist,and a 1 in 12" twist,they did not discontinue the 1 in 12" twist.I ordered a 1 in 12" barrel,but a 1 in 8" gun was sent out by mistake.
I have rifles in chamberings that are legal for big game hunting in Alberta and Saskatchewan,and even if .224" bullets were legal here,I wouldn't use them for deer hunting.And when I hunt big game,I use bullets designed for big game hunting ,not target bullets.
Me too...
And I shoot moose, elk and grizly bears with it all the time well past 600 yards!
Plus one elephant at 800 yards but I admit that was a lucky shot.
I never use a rangefinder either, just eyball it up and aim high.
Ever heard of the term "confirmation bias"
That's when a person has a set of beliefs and seeks out information to confirm those beliefs and discredits or dismisses anything that may be contrary to those beliefs.
fclassguy - dont bother getting into it with these characters. If they dont recognize good advice then forget em.
I've heard about your shooting with that 223 Sako of yours and rumour is you've never lost a match with it. I also heard from someone that you won an ISU match with a score of 1197 out of a possible 1200 with it. You only dropped 3 points in 2 full days of shooting! Holy cr@p!
Just let em try to chase you at the range. You can show em who's boss there.
They wont win any medals at the keyboard.
I can sense your frustration and appreciate the advice you have so generously offered, even if some of these guys dont.
I bought 600 75gr a-max's. Shooting them through a 1:9 twist Savage 12 VLP DBM .223. Although not ideal, I wish it was a 1:8 twist they were stabilized.
I think they will be the summertime ammo. 65F 29.23" HG pressure and the were stabilized and hitting a 2.75x5.75" steel door in my 12 x 15" target at 510 yards. The Miller Stability factor was 1.01.
The Hornady 75 gr BTHP's being shorter were easily stabilized and was hitting the target at 686 yards consistently.
I have had great luck with the 68gr Hornady and 69 gr sierras in the 1:9 twist.
Attached is video of 69 gr Sierra at 686 yards last weekend. Videos for the 75's not processed yet and may get them up in a couple of weeks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynATgT0S-90
Cheers
I think they will be the summertime ammo. 65F 29.23" HG pressure and the were stabilized and hitting a 2.75x5.75" steel door in my 12 x 15" target at 510 yards. The Miller Stability factor was 1.01.
The Hornady 75 gr BTHP's being shorter were easily stabilized and was hitting the target at 686 yards consistently.
I have had great luck with the 68gr Hornady and 69 gr sierras in the 1:9 twist.
Attached is video of 69 gr Sierra at 686 yards last weekend. Videos for the 75's not processed yet and may get them up in a couple of weeks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynATgT0S-90
Cheers
