10/22 OAL Question
- Thread starter Darc
- Start date
If you think the crown needs to prove anything concerning length and added on components - good luck with that. They have a simple argument and sympathetic judges.
You can solve this problem... do what you want and take it into your local police... and if you get charged hire a good lawyer and let us know the outcome. You may set a precedent, you may lose.
I know, but I was replying to the insinuation that barrel length was measured from Breach to end of rifling.
The #### are people smoking.
No where in legislation is Overall Length defined, I suspect it would be defined as end of buttstock to end of barrel (including any permanent attachments). No where in legislation does it state what overall length is.
My interpretation of Overall Length is taken from the dictionary (which is common if its not explicitly defined in legislation) Merriam webster states Overall is "with everyone or everything taken into account" it doesn't cavet that a muzzle device does not count for overall length. So Overall length means the length from one end of the firearm to the other with everything included.
What people are missing here is Barrel Length =/= Overall length at all
The only definition in the Criminal code is Barrel length which from plain wording does not include muzzle devices.
So barrel length does not include muzzle devices, but barrel length =/= overall length.
Someone needs to get a straight definition from the CFP what overall length is, but people need to stop insinuating that how the barrel length is measured relates to overall length. When clearly it does not.
Example: IRUNGUNS had a spot of bother with the RCMP lab importing the TROY PAR rifle, but managed to convince the lab that a permanently attached muzzle device does count for overall length. (the PAR is a manual action rifle so it only needed to meet the 660 mm rule)
RCMP making noise that muzzle break doesn't count
Resolution from the RCMP Lab agreeing that OAL was sufficient
No where in legislation is Overall Length defined, I suspect it would be defined as end of buttstock to end of barrel (including any permanent attachments). No where in legislation does it state what overall length is.
My interpretation of Overall Length is taken from the dictionary (which is common if its not explicitly defined in legislation) Merriam webster states Overall is "with everyone or everything taken into account" it doesn't cavet that a muzzle device does not count for overall length. So Overall length means the length from one end of the firearm to the other with everything included.
What people are missing here is Barrel Length =/= Overall length at all
The only definition in the Criminal code is Barrel length which from plain wording does not include muzzle devices.
So barrel length does not include muzzle devices, but barrel length =/= overall length.
Someone needs to get a straight definition from the CFP what overall length is, but people need to stop insinuating that how the barrel length is measured relates to overall length. When clearly it does not.
Example: IRUNGUNS had a spot of bother with the RCMP lab importing the TROY PAR rifle, but managed to convince the lab that a permanently attached muzzle device does count for overall length. (the PAR is a manual action rifle so it only needed to meet the 660 mm rule)
RCMP making noise that muzzle break doesn't count
Resolution from the RCMP Lab agreeing that OAL was sufficient
Yes....and you said:
That cannot be true. Barrel length has nothing to do with rifling. Many rifles are counter-bored, some like the AR-180B have integral muzzle brakes. Some barrels are not rifled at all.
Just because a section of your barrel is not rifled, it doesn't mean it's not counted towards barrel length. Now, if you weld on a brake/flash supressor/hollow tube will that count towards barrel length? No. It's been added on to an existing barrel. Will it count towards over all length? IMHO, yes. Why wouldn't it? Especially if it is permanently attached.
You are taking it out of context... my remarks were concerning what the RCMP did with added on attachments on existing restricted barrels. That's where the rifling comes into play... not what the factories may produce.
Fill your boots and do what ever you want to do...
- Location
- West Quebec
^^^ well said.. it keeps them employed doing little to improve safety
but it should for overall length if welded on the end
Lots of miss information in this thread. More of that than acceptable information. Crazy.
Your flash hider doesn’t count for barrel length. Unless it is machined from the same peice as the barrel.
Your flash hider DOES count for over ALL length. So long as it is attached to the gun at the time. No glue or welding needed.
Barrel length is measured by the rcmp the following way. Muzzle device removed. A rod is inserted into the muzzle end until it hits the bolt face. The end of the barrel is marked and the rod is measured. Rifling doesn’t matter nor do integral flash hiders.
Your flash hider doesn’t count for barrel length. Unless it is machined from the same peice as the barrel.
Your flash hider DOES count for over ALL length. So long as it is attached to the gun at the time. No glue or welding needed.
Barrel length is measured by the rcmp the following way. Muzzle device removed. A rod is inserted into the muzzle end until it hits the bolt face. The end of the barrel is marked and the rod is measured. Rifling doesn’t matter nor do integral flash hiders.
It goes to show how stupid these laws really are, when people whose livelihoods and freedom depend on an interpretation of a vague law about an inch of hollow tubing, or a piece of plastic or rubber held on by 2x 3/8 wood screws.
Could you provide a link to that info - Firearms Act or RCMP for ex.
I used a factory Ruger 10" barrel, and a AR type stock. It came out to 650mm collasped, so I added a buffer tube collar, drilled and tapped the collar in place with a allen key, and put JB Weld in the allen head hole to make 660mm without the flash hider in place.
Thinking a flash hider will suffice is a pretty grey area being short already will draw attention, so best to be cautious.
Thinking a flash hider will suffice is a pretty grey area being short already will draw attention, so best to be cautious.
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Way back in the day we had something called a registry. During that time I took a course put on by the rcmp to be what they called a verifer.... I’ve been though this.
That and the wording gives it all away. Over ALL length.
If things that are threaded/screwed on don’t count we’re all going to have to weld out plastic/rubber butt plates to our wood/plastic/metal stocks. Or in your opinion does it only count at one end of the gun?
It’s amazing the lengths a Canadian gun owner will go to to make up imaginary laws to follow.
