10/22 vs TM-22. Is the 10/22 overrated/outdated? (not for sensitive 10/22 fanboys)

[CanuckShooter]

I've been considering a custom 10/22 build for years now, but the more I look into the cost and the antiquated design of the rifle, the more I'm backing away from it. Makes me appreciate my TM-22 that much more.

Some of the things that really bother me...

- the v-block is just a crap design causing barrel droop affecting reliability and accuracy (this is the biggest flaw IMO)
- barrel/receiver fitment issues (some are a ridiculously tight fit)
- single action screw on a heavy barreld rifle is lame
- Ruger 25rd mags are unreliable and pinned
- field strip is a pain
- no last shot hold open (ridiculous)
- cost is well over $1000


Now compare these points to the Derya...

- barrel nut is objectively superior to v-block
- modular design does not use a traditional rifle stock and instead accepts AR furniture
- mags work perfect whether they're 10, 15, or 25rds and aren't pinned
- field strip is easier IMO, just screws, no hammering out pins
- has last shot hold open
- $510 on sale frequently


I do wish the Derya had an actual bolt catch, but in almost every other way it's superior in my eyes. Sure the rotary magazine of the 10/22 is neat, but otherwise the platform is actually pretty underwhelming for the price.

Any one out there feel the same? I've never been a fan of the traditional rifle design (stock bolted onto barreled action). The modularity of the AR platform is the pinnacle of gun design for me. Exceptions made for bolt action rifles, for now...

Please note that I'm talking about custom 10/22 builds. It's one thing to pay $400 for a 10/22 on sale. You can accept the flaws at that price. At $1100-$1500 though, it's a bit ridiculous.

 

[hogie]

Not familiar with the TM 22, I do have a couple of 1022 that are built up.

If you start off with quality components then you won't have many of your complaints with 1022. Barrel droop is not an issue with my Dlask reciever and Kidd heavy match barrel.

There are some really good aftermarket stocks that address the single action screw issue. I prefer a tight fit, have went to MDT , Victor and Specter stocks. I like them better but I don't think that the different locking ideas made a huge difference in accuracy. More the stock design.

Magazine issue? Just use 10 round or go to Dlask reciever if you want more. They use a different mag.

I'm not a fan of field stripping it either. Fortunately its not a deal breaker for me. I had a Browning Buckmark rifle that I thought was worse. Really any semi is more work than a bolt action.

Last shot hold open would be nice. Not a deal breaker for me, dry fire is OK.

1022 has been around for long time, lots of aftermarket options. Kidd 2 stage trigger is phenomenal, not cheap but worth it. Tons of aftermarket options. I like to have different, but different comes with its own set of issues sometimes.

Build up a TM 22 and compare it to a Kidd Dlask build. Post the results.

 

[Redneck Hippy]

Nothing about OP is wrong per se
But tell me some things about the TM22

Post some groups
Can I easily customize it at home?
What happens if it breaks? Can I get it fixed? Or fix it at home?
Parts?
Warranty?

I had a Winchester Wildcat, superior to a 10/22 as far as usability… trigger was bad however, plastic shoe, not really adjustable
Nothing replaceable. Sold it
Such a rifle would be a solid buy and keep even if it were 4 times the price, but made of more metal with some aftermarket support.

The latest crop of Turkish 22’s are actually amazing from a design point of view but most feel like toys and don’t inspire confidence. If you are buying for a range toy go for it! Get one in every colour!

I’d be the first to ditch my 10/22’s if something really, actually better came along

 

[taeish]

10/22 fembois is what I read. Whoops.
Derya or not, It's hard to beat the parts ecosystem and availability of something that's been around forever.

 

[CanuckShooter]

I should have stated in my original post that I'm not building a competition gun. I'm just a recreational shooter and am commenting from that perspective on build quality/value for the money.

I'd certainly hope a gun with a $500 Kidd barrel, and $450 Kidd trigger group would be more accurate than a rifle that cost $500 in total. You're talking about a 10/22 that's going to be about to 4x the cost of the Derya. I'm personally not a fan of the MDT Field stock's fastening system eliminating the ability to use a bolt buffer, and it looks like the Spectre chassis might use the same method, but I'm not 100% sure.

I have the same "can I get parts/service for it?" mentality. O'Dell warranties Derya. They get really good reviews when it comes to service. I've used them a couple times for parts upgrades as have two family members and they sent the parts within a week. Lots of aftermarket parts are coming out for the TM-22 now due to the rifle's popularity, though of course it doesn't compare to to the selection of aftermarket 10/22 parts. Just need someone to make short barrels since Dlask isn't doing them anymore. It'll definitely take time for the selection of aftermarket parts to grow.

 

[FatCatsDad]

There is minimal to no difference in accuracy from a $500 10-22 and a custom $1200

 

[taeish]

There is minimal to no difference in accuracy from a $500 10-22 and a custom $1200

Would you say that for poorly QC'd 10-22 and 1200? I think you're paying for guaranty of quality.

 

[johNTO]

I stayed away from 1022's for many of the same reasons listed in the OP. However, I picked up a DLASK 1022 TakeDown a couple of years ago and don't have any issues with it.
Most of the negative listed reasons were addressed and improved. There's no barrel droop due to DLASK's v-block design, last shot hold open is easily addressed, field strip isn't an issue due to the large mag well and mine being a take-down. The rotary mags sit flush and work great and the HC3R mag runs fine even tho its fiddly to load.
After recently handling the TM-22 and a few of the new Turkish semi auto 22's the DLASK feels more robust vs the plastic/white metal competition.
I don't plan on buying anymore semi 22lr's so I'm happy to have a DLASK 1022 even at 2x the cost.....

 

[45CAT]

Remember Dlask is winding down. Parts are on sale at the moment

 

[edgy]

I own both, the Derya sees much more use simply due to the type of shooting I do. As a sort of replacement for AR style rifles in competition the Derya is a fine platform. As much as I enjoy the 10/22 I don’t grab it very often since I got the Derya a few years ago.

 

[667]

10/22 is a proven product... I hate the magazines though.
The derya is a cruder, crappy triggered with no upgrade options, but... its box mag fed.
If/once you get it to run reliably its a decent choice for action shooting.

 

[CanuckShooter]

There's no barrel droop due to DLASK's v-block design...

What about the design of their v-block corrects barrel droop? Genuinely asking. I know the TacSol v-block is supposed to have something unique about it that counteracts droop.

After recently handling the TM-22 and a few of the new Turkish semi auto 22's the DLASK feels more robust vs the plastic/white metal competition.

I have no doubt that some Turkish stuff is subpar. It's just a country, which many different companies operate out of. The original all metal TM-22 however is made of 7075 just like the Dlask receiver. Not exactly white metal. I think you're maybe talking about euro toy guns like the GSGs etc using crappy Zamak zinc alloy.

 

[OkayShooter]

10/22s were nice when bricks were 15$ and could use 25rd mags.

 

[OkayShooter]

What about the design of their v-block corrects barrel droop? Genuinely asking. I know the TacSol v-block is supposed to have something unique about it that counteracts droop.

Small set screw between the 2 mounting bolt holes. That put upwards pressure on the barrel.

 

[CanuckShooter]

Oh right the set screw. That I saw, but I cringe at the idea of torquing that screw into an expensive barrel. I've also read very conflicting reviews on how effective it is as a solution.

 

[OkayShooter]

Oh right the set screw. That I saw, but I cringe at the idea of torquing that screw into an expensive barrel. I've also read very conflicting reviews on how effective it is as a solution.

You aint really torquing it much. It really depends on the reciever. I gotten ones that are very loose. Mostly newer productions.

 

[wildhog007]

I built a 10/22 for around $800 all in. I started by buying a used 10/22 rifle with a cheap scope for $400 shipping included then sold off the stuff I wasn’t going to use. Parts sell quick if priced right. I was left with a receiver, bolt, magazine, trigger group pins and trigger group for $120-130. This thing shoots extremely good and is accurate. Same hole at 25 yds and sub moa at 50 yds & 100 yds depending on ammo. I’ll list all upgrades and tax in prices.

The above mentioned parts. $130

Trigger upgrades and parts:

-Wolff trigger spring kit. Includes hammer spring, trigger reset spring and sear spring $30
-Dlask extended mag release. A must have with the bolt hold open push button. $40
-Dlask stainless magazine plunger with higher tension spring. $30
-Auto bolt release mod done by myself. Free
-Trigger lightened to a consistent 2-2.5# trigger pull weight done by myself. All parts polished afterwards. Free
-Trigger over travel set screw installed by myself. Drilled, tapped trigger and installed a set screw with loctite. Free

Receiver upgrades and parts:

-Dlask 20moa picatinny rail. $56
-Dlask adjustable V-block. This is for heavy barrels and doesn’t let the barrel droop. $25
-Dlask Kidd extended charging handle. $60
-Dlask receiver take down bolt. $6
-Ballistic Advantage 10/22 stainless steel fluted bull barrel, threaded with thread protector. Fit really well with the receiver $300
-Tougher buffer, recoil buffer. $7
-Factory bolt, polished by myself.

Stock:
-Hogue 10/22 rifle stock for .920 barrel. Stock fits really nice and tight. $110

Grand total of rifle build = $794

Attachments and scope:

-Magpul bipod with sling stud attachment. Bought used in as new condition. $140
-Arken EP5 5-25x56 scope with Arken bubble level. Bought used but it was Brand new in box. $550 shipping included
-Arken 34mm medium height rings. Bought used but it was Brand new in packaging. $60 shipping included

Full build cost = $1544

 

[FatCatsDad]

Would you say that for poorly QC'd 10-22 and 1200? I think you're paying for guaranty of quality.

I can strip a new 10-22 and polish all the internal edges and contact points over a couple of morning coffees and have a reliable shooting gun that will last a lifetime.

Trigger is still shıt but it's reliable and repeatable.

Dropping a 10-22 in a chassis or other fancy $600 stock does NOT make it a better shooter.
It makes it $1000 gun that shoots like a $400 gun.

What do you consider accurate ?

Hitting dimes at 100 yards off hand ?

Hitting Loonies at 75 yds off hand ?

Hitting a pop can at 50 yds off hand ?

 

[Hissatsu]

The Ruger is a fine plinking 22. Even the factory knows the trigger is crap. At 50 yds it is fine for most non target shooting. It’s an inexpensive and ok gun. If you can live with that accuracy.

 

[Rman]

Accuracy and 10/22 really don’t belong in the same sentence. The entire design limits the accuracy. There is no amount of bolt on, thread on, tape on junk that will mitigate this.
The uber 22 game is a sickness that has claimed many an enthusiast.
Many many folks have been sucked in to the 10/22 platform for lots of different reasons.
If its a fun plinker you’re after for been cans in the gravel pit, then it will definitely be your huckleberry.
If its accuracy you’re after then it has a bolt, and will end up being expensive on so many different levels.

R.