10 shot group size, opinions.

[Kelly Timoffee]

Did what I think was my final load test today.

This testing was done at 100 yards , 10 shot groups , no waiting for wind or cool down, just shooting 10 in a row.

What would you precision shooters out there justify as a group worth stopping at and moving outwards for practice?

8 out of 10 shots had a vertical deviation of under 1/2 MOA(.488" it measured), 10 out of 10 had .8 MOA.

Horizontal 10 out of 10 had .864" spread ,9 out of 10 had .645" .

I have done 5 shot groups that were well under 1/2 MOA at 200 with this load but just wanted to see what 10 would show.

No competition intended for me and this rifle, just fun and poops and giggles, and trying to improve as a shooter.

 

[Terry Perkins]

If you're shooting off a bipod, it's time to move onto longer ranges. Not everyone wants to compete against others, but it is a good yardstick for how you and your rifle are performing.

 

[caramel]

10 shots groups is the real test for accuracy in my book, all my rifles have to perform with 10, 3 is quite easy, 5 is more indicative of good accuracy but 10 is the ultimate accuracy but this is just my humble opinion surely some persons wont agree... JP.

 

[Haagen_Dazs]

I think it's great you're shooting more than 3 shot groups which seems to be the trend more often than not, but 10 shots is a little over-zealous. By the time you get past 5 and depending on your barrel contour, you're no longer measuring your rifle's precision but what it does when it heats up.

A fun test, but useless unless you're trying to practice for a competition where rapid fire is required. (Or you've got alot of people to snipe, I'm not judging )


A better way to spend your time and resources would be to develop a precision statement for different ranges and wind conditions ect. For example, shoot 4 individual five-shot groups at the same target board, allowing for the barrel to cool between groups. Ignore 1 of the 20 shots (the largest flyer from one of the groups), measure the groups, and average them. Then you could say: 19 times out of 20 (95%), my rifle will group X MoA at X yards in X wind. (in X atmosphere at X look angle in X wx conditions blah blah blah...). It's all a game of probs and stats; the more times you repeat this test the better idea you have of what your rifle/ammo can do. (remember that bell curve thingy in grade school?)

If Long range hunting is your flavour, just go out and try to one shot kill rocks or other natural targets at various ranges and count your hits vs misses. Just make sure the targets represent the kill zone, not the entire animal size.


10 shot groups are cool, but you wouldn't catch me shooting many of them.



And to JP (and about 80% of the precision shooting community): Accuracy = shot placement, Precision = group size!

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

I have a hunting load already developed for this rifle that works exceptionally well.

It is a varmint contour fluted 26" 7mm barrel.

Just wanting to get the most out of me and the rifle.No hunting intended what so ever for these current load tests.

I understand your formulation and application for long range testing, I am just wondering if I should move out/up to that next level or try to refine more.

I think it's great you're shooting more than 3 shot groups which seems to be the trend more often than not, but 10 shots is a little over-zealous. By the time you get past 5 and depending on your barrel contour, you're no longer measuring your rifle's precision but what it does when it heats up.

A fun test, but useless unless you're trying to practice for a competition where rapid fire is required. (Or you've got alot of people to snipe, I'm not judging )


A better way to spend your time and resources would be to develop a precision statement for different ranges and wind conditions ect. For example, shoot 4 individual five-shot groups at the same target board, allowing for the barrel to cool between groups. Ignore 1 of the 20 shots (the largest flyer from one of the groups), measure the groups, and average them. Then you could say: 19 times out of 20 (95%), my rifle will group X MoA at X yards in X wind. (in X atmosphere at X look angle in X wx conditions blah blah blah...). It's all a game of probs and stats; the more times you repeat this test the better idea you have of what your rifle/ammo can do. (remember that bell curve thingy in grade school?)

If Long range hunting is your flavour, just go out and try to one shot kill rocks or other natural targets at various ranges and count your hits vs misses. Just make sure the targets represent the kill zone, not the entire animal size.


10 shot groups are cool, but you wouldn't catch me shooting many of them.



And to JP (and about 80% of the precision shooting community): Accuracy = shot placement, Precision = group size!

 

[paperslayer]

If a rifle doesn't group in three it won't group in ten. Three shots is an aceptable trend tracker. If you are load developing and see the groups shrink and then open up, you can feel cofortable it is entering and leaving a node.

It is when you pick the one half ways decent group out of a dozen lousy ones that you cannot put your hat on a good group.

I think ten shots is a good barometer, especially of bullet quality and consistency. One lousy shot in ten is likely not the gun, it is you, the conditions or the load/bullet. Amax were notorious for the what the hell flyer.

have fun and keep it up.

 

[KDX]

Sounds good.

 

[vviking]

Done what you can get done at 100yds, IMO.
Time to move on out and see what happens.

 

[Bakersfield7.62]

Sounds like the load is ready to test at range sometimes it will shoot tighter MOA at ferther distances I have a load that avrages between .75 and .50 at 100 but will shoot sub .50 MOA at 325

 

[pilot2001]

First of all ... 7mm mag isnt the hardest on barrels but there not the easiest either. 10 shot groups are gonna be hard on the throat of that barrel. I wouldn't do more than 5. I shoot that cartridge and only a couple of times hsve I shot 7. 5 is plenty. 2nd if your shooting longer ranges I'm more concerned about what it's doing at 300. I don't care about 100 that much, I can throw a rock that far. All b.s aside , sounds like its shooting real good. Stretch it out to 300 and look for .25 min out there. Even if your .5 min " inch and a half " your looking damn good in my opinion. Keep up the good work, sounds like your on The downward leg of your load development.

Also I personally agree with pretty much everything everyone has posted here. Looks like you got some pretty good feed back.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

I appreciate your post but I don't have a 7 magnum, .

7-08 150 grain @ 2800 ft/sec, hardware should last a long time I hope.

I highly doubt I am capable of 1/4 minute at 300 , but will sure make the effort!

First of all ... 7mm mag isnt the hardest on barrels but there not the easiest either. 10 shot groups are gonna be hard on the throat of that barrel. I wouldn't do more than 5. I shoot that cartridge and only a couple of times hsve I shot 7. 5 is plenty. 2nd if your shooting longer ranges I'm more concerned about what it's doing at 300. I don't care about 100 that much, I can throw a rock that far. All b.s aside , sounds like its shooting real good. Stretch it out to 300 and look for .25 min out there. Even if your .5 min " inch and a half " your looking damn good in my opinion. Keep up the good work, sounds like your on The downward leg of your load development.

Also I personally agree with pretty much everything everyone has posted here. Looks like you got some pretty good feed back.

 

[pilot2001]

I appreciate your post but I don't have a 7 magnum, .

7-08 150 grain @ 2800 ft/sec, hardware should last a long time I hope.

I highly doubt I am capable of 1/4 minute at 300 , but will sure make the effort!

Ah yes , 708 is a difrrent critter. I almost gaurentee once you get 250+ shots through that gun you will be able to tweek the load to get .5 min at 300. good luck !

 

[blwebster]

Years ago I was advised the true test of accuracy in a hunting rifle is found by firing one shot at 100 meters once each year. I have done so with a Pre-1964 Winchester .30/06 with all shots in 1 inch except for the last couple of years ... during which I did not hunt with it.

Bought it brand new in 1965. Not the lightweight one.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Finally got to scanning my target and figured I'd post it for viewing/critiquing.

1.4" is the 'X' ring and the group measurements are stated above.

 

[Longshot]

I bet you would have shot a smaller group had you had a smaller aiming mark. I think you should move er back to at least 300m if you can. Use the smallest aiming mark possible. At 300 a 1 inch mark works well!

 

[pilot2001]

I bet you would have shot a smaller group had you had a smaller aiming mark. I think you should move er back to at least 300m if you can. Use the smallest aiming mark possible. At 300 a 1 inch mark works well!

I support this message

 

[paperslayer]

Years ago I was advised the true test of accuracy in a hunting rifle is found by firing one shot at 100 meters once each year. I have done so with a Pre-1964 Winchester .30/06 with all shots in 1 inch except for the last couple of years ... during which I did not hunt with it.

Bought it brand new in 1965. Not the lightweight one.

The true test of a hunting rifle's accuracy for me is how full my freezer looks at the end of November.

 

[Longshot]

Doesn't have to be on an actual target. Any old piece of paper with a 1 inch magic marker square or a shot patch works great. I know you can get one inch black shoot-n-see circles too but I find as soon as I hit it I lose my solid aiming mark.